How to Calm an Activated Nervous System

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Transcript: How to Calm an Activated Nervous System

Season 11, Episode 31  | November 18, 2025

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Welcome back to Time Talks, everyone. I’m Jamie Martin.

And I’m David Freeman.

And in this episode, we are talking about how to regulate an activated nervous system. We all know that stress is a natural part of life, but when we’re on high alert for too long, our nervous systems can become imbalanced. This can affect our mental well-being, our physical health. And today, we’re really talking about why this happens, and what we can do to bring regulation to our nervous system when it’s activated so that we can gain greater resiliency and a greater sense of calm. And I’m really excited about our guest today. David, you can go ahead and introduce her.

Yeah, we got Brie back. So Brie Vortherms is a licensed mental health professional and a relational coach. She brings the integrative lens to her work with a diverse background in evidence-based and holistic approaches, including certifications and trauma-informed care, cognitive behavioral approaches, and more holistic approaches, such as having EFT tapping.

She is also certified in Wrike practitioner. She helps her clients to work through relationship dynamics, stress related to work and life transitions, emotional regulation, and combining traditional therapies with somatic and coaching techniques to support both healing and growth at every level. Welcome back, Brie. How you been?

I’ve been good. So happy to be here.

Yeah, we’re happy to have you.

I know, it’s been a while since we’ve had on, and I think it’s a really great time to have you here. A lot of us over the last year have been dealing with a lot. There’s a lot going on in our world. There’s a lot of us are managing a lot of things in our lives. And we can feel it in our bodies. So the purpose of this episode, really, is to talk about what is it that we’re feeling, and what we can do about it. So let’s have you start.

I know you talked a little bit before we even got on but I want to set the tone for this episode. So let’s just take a moment to do that, and then we’ll dive into what the nervous system is.

Yeah, I mean, I think, that there’s as global of a response as we can have. If we look at what helps us feel good, be our highest functioning self, and be in healthy relationships. And for me, it comes down to regulation. It comes down to being in the right part of our brain, essentially. And when we’re activated or feeling threatened, we’re in a primal part of our brain that doesn’t allow us to be our most creative, calm, functional self. And that affects how we feel, and it affects how other people react to us in the relationships that we’re in.

So when I think of even doing some couples therapy stuff, we start with just regulation. We can’t get anywhere and have a good conversation if people are not regulated. We have to really be grounded so that we’re all talking from the same part of our brain. And that would be my hope for today, is to just discuss that as a global thing, and how we can all work on that individually and for each other.

I love that. So with that in mind, let’s talk about what the nervous system is because you’ve already alluded to this and how it includes the roles of the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems.

Yeah. So I mean, I think the part of the nervous system that we’re talking about today, and of course, it’s always oversimplified when we break it down, but we’re talking about that autonomic nervous system that has those two branches. The autonomic nervous system is the part that is basically all involuntary to a certain degree. So it’s the part that innervates all of our organs and those involuntary pieces. And those two branches are equal and opposite, which is that sympathetic response that we’ll talk about, which is the activated part, and then the parasympathetic part, which is the one that’s supposed to bring us back into regulation and baseline.

Yeah. And you talked about that sympathetic. That’s really that primal piece you talked about.

Yeah, so when people are going to think about that fight or flight response, that’s a sympathetic. And I think, I also like to expand that definition of fight or flight into freeze, because functional freeze is that ultimate when we’ve pushed past all of our resources and we can end up in a functional freeze. And then there’s a fourth one, too, which is fun, and that a lot of people will identify as that people-pleasing that way to how do I create safety by showing up in a certain way. So if we look at that sympathetic primal response, we’re looking at fight, flight, freeze and fun.

So Brie, let’s break this down. When the nervous system gets triggered or goes into the state of dysregulation, what kind of ripple effects can that have on our mind and our body?

Yeah, I mean, I think, like I said, if you look at of those four, fight, flight, freeze, or fun, everyone responds differently under threat. And some people are more wired to fire. Some people have more of that freeze response. So with that, it’s going to manifest differently for everyone. And there’s a whole, I mean, there’s a whole host of ways it can look from, I think, some of that cognitive, which is you’re going to be less focused, less creative. You’re going to be more in that fear state of mind.

So we have, again, less access to our cognitive functioning. We’re going to experience other psychological things from the emotional aspect where we’re going to be, let’s say overwhelmed, which is a function of fear. So you’re going to be in fear. You can have a lot of the physiological pieces where you’re going to have potentially things like racing heart, increased respiration, those feelings of anxiety.

A lot of people will experience activation as digestive distress. People will have symptoms like IBS or sometimes ulcers, where you’re going to have real digestive pieces to how this looks. Muscle tension is a huge one. So people will get tension headaches or a lot of neck tension where they’ll feel like they’re carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders because they’re in that activated chronic stress state.

And another one, too, that’s interesting is a lot of times, reproduction stuff, fertility stuff can really be downregulated because you think of fight or flight. And the opposite of that is rest and digest. And that rest state is where reproduction lies. So a lot of [AUDIO OUT] that chronic stress can cause dome reproductive or fertility issues for people too. So there’s a whole lot of ways that this can show up.

Yeah. You’ve mentioned the word activation. And we also hear about nervous system dysregulation. What is the difference between the two?

So actually, if we look at activation, it’s almost our important response. So that’s a congruent response to our reality. Nervous system activation is there’s a threat and we’re rising to meet the threat. And that actually can be a healthy and very adaptive response.

We do want that because there are places in our life that we actually have to have an active response where we’re looking around, we’re keeping our kids safe, we’re keeping our bodies safe. We’re in a state of activation. And that’s not necessarily harmful. That’s actually productive, and we need that response. So that’s a activation concept of, there is something I’m observing as a threat, and I’m rising to meet that threat with my physiology.

And then dysregulation is almost more of that chronic response where, let’s say, it’s a prolonged response where we’re in it too long, we’re not able to return to baseline, even if the threat or the perceived threat is no longer there. So it’s more of a maladaptive response, let’s say, to just stressors. And we don’t have to necessarily remain activated that long.

So let’s spend some time here when it comes to, actually, caring for the nervous system. And I mean, I know you’re probably excited about it because this is your background. How can we now walk through some tools or techniques that we can help to regulate or reset when people start to become off centered?

Yeah. So anytime I’m trying to create an intervention or let’s say treatment plan or treatment for something, I try to break it down into, which, I think, we’ve actually talked about before. These different types of responses. And I usually look at it through the lens of micro, habitual, or macro recoveries.

We have absolutely talked a little bit about this, but it’s been a while. It’s a good reminder.

Performance recovery, but we’re talking about ways to recover. And I think if we break it down into those three categories, it allows us to always feel like we can throw something at it depending on how much time we have, because I think a lot of people are overwhelmed in general. We’re in a state of chronic stress for so many reasons, from global reasons to community reasons to those smaller scale things that happen in your nuclear family.

And so people are like, well, when am I going to find the time to do this even? And so that’s why I like to look at it through that lens of, what are some micro things that we can do? And those are under five minutes habitual things, which are things that we should be doing in those healthy way of life lens on a daily or weekly basis so that maybe when we’re not in crisis, or we’re not in a state of activation, we’re doing these things that help our nervous system build resilience long term.

And then macro recoveries are just things that are bigger commitments that allow us to make progress again in that long term lasting change or rewiring of our nervous system. So I’m going to break down into those three parts, if that’s cool.

Yeah.

Yeah. Let’s start with micro because that’s the stuff that’s right here in front of us, right?

Yeah. So in under five minutes, what are a handful of things you can do? And reminding us what we’re talking about is we’re moving from a state of activation to a state of resiliency or calm. And if you look at the brain, we’re going from blood flow to that more amygdala, which is that fight, flight, or freeze, that’s vigilant for threat and danger, into more of that prefrontal cortex or that executive functioning.

And it is as simple as blood flow can go to one or the other. It’s a switch. And so all these things that we’re going to be talking about, micro, habitual, macro, are going to be working on moving blood flow to that prefrontal cortex. So that micro concept I really start with getting a grip on your thoughts. So this is how we create reality.

And a lot of times we have to figure out what we’re thinking of as threatening. What is triggering you? What are you making up? Is this a real threat? Or are we not overreacting, but sometimes we can take a neutral stimulus and think of it as threatening, or we can overthink something and really cause our body to go into a full fight or flight response for no reason.

And that can sometimes depend on people’s trauma history. And I just put that in there, too, some people really have experienced things in life that have wired their nervous system to always be in a state of hypervigilance, and they can really interpret even neutral stimulus as threatening. And so we have to be really compassionate about that something that might not seem threatening to you is going to seem really threatening to someone who hasn’t had a lot of safety in their life.

So we start with those thoughts, which is what are we making up about it? That email, I’m going to get fired. Is that helpful? So in that moment, you can really look and say, hey, is this that helpful? Or is this going to really cause me to just be stressed out and to feel scared and to feel overwhelmed? And so we noticed that thought.

And I like to do some type of tough but tender conversation with myself, which is, hey, honey, we don’t have time for that. Or this isn’t helpful. I’m not going to let you do that to yourself right now. Nope, we’re not going there. So really, of micro, hey, I’m going to grab that, and I’m going to choose to offer myself a different more safe thought that says we’re going to be OK. We always figure it out, or whatever might fit the situation a little bit better. That make sense?

Mhm.

Absolutely. A couple other things that you’re going to find when if you were to, let’s say, google or do your own research on how do we shift? Breathwork is always going to be up there, because if you think about it, we can’t control digestion. We can’t control perspiration. One system, though, that we can control that’s otherwise involuntary is breathing. So we actually get to grab onto this thing that’s really primal and regulate it.

And so we get to go, hey, I can actually calm and take control of my breath. And I think a key piece to breathwork, if we were to again oversimplify, it is just having a really long exhale. A really long exhale essentially communicates to your nervous system, hey, I’m safe. I’m not running from a tiger. I must have this luxury of being able to exhale. And so we must not actually be in a threatening situation. So it’s a way to communicate really quickly to the nervous system, we’re good. So focusing on just a really long exhale can shift that blood flow really quickly.

It’s interesting even as you said breathwork, I noticed I paid attention to that next inhale that I took. And that’s what’s always so fascinating. It’s like when I don’t want to think about it, not on my mind, but the minute I put my focus there, it’s like you can’t help but notice it, and take a little bit of control with it.

And it’s pretty quick.

Yeah, absolutely. You feel almost immediately.

You do. And the more often you do it, the more trust you build with that nervous system. So the quicker you’re actually going to feel relief if you continue with that. Go ahead.

Building on that for just a second, I know, David, we always talk on this podcast about the practice, right.

Yep, yep.

And again, this is a micro habit. It’s like the more we practice it, the more available it is to us in those moments when we need it most. So when you’re working with clients, Brie, what is one simple exercise you give them to practice, so they’re prepared for those moments when it’s most needed?

Sure. So if we were to look at that, let’s say, breathwork piece — so I’m going to shift for a second. I’m hearing the word somatic. So it’s a really somatic thing. And so we’re moving from this cognitive piece that can just run amok. It’s a little bit fighting the mind with the mind. And anytime we can move into that body, it’s called embodiment, somatic work, where we can connect with any other senses. It’s going to be extremely grounding.

Got it.

So I talk about any way you can connect with your senses. I don’t care if that’s putting your bare feet on the ground, which has a whole bunch of other benefits. I do this one often where we, actually, if you look at acupressure or acupuncture, a lot of our nerve endings and fascia are going to be in our hands and feet. And so we can operate on the whole nervous system by just using our sense of touch and finding some of these acupressure points in our hands and feet, incredibly grounding.

Scent is incredibly grounding and can shift you very, very quickly. So having some type of scent that works for you, grounding scents are things like frankincense or cedarwood, or there’s some really bright ones that can help a mood shift like orange. And that might seem silly, but it really is a strong — it’s one of our strongest senses and shift us really quickly.

So I usually say find something to do with your senses. Look around for something that looks and feels safe or engage any of those senses so that you can actually be embodied or in your body. That will help move you into a sense of safety versus that mental space where we get whacked out.

Yeah. I mean, I’m recapping a lot of what you’re saying, and it’s three A’s came to me, Awareness, Acknowledgment, and Activation.

Yea.

And when you said at first you were like awareness, being able to tune in to yourself, noticing how the stress is starting to rise within your body and mind. I think you said the racing heart, shallow breaths. Tension is starting to speak to your system. So first, I’m aware. And then I love the acknowledgment piece to be able to give self-compassion. But give yourself permission to feel it without the judgment.

So recognizing this is the reality for right now. And it’s OK. But then the powerful part, activation, that’s where the shift happens. And you just gave great examples, breathwork, grounding, movement. These are the acts if you will. That’s another a rite of reclaiming the calmness. And I love how you painted that picture. And once again, I’m just listening, going through therapy at the same time, I guess. But that awareness, acknowledgment, and activation I love that.

Yeah. And when I’m listening to you process that, I’m hearing the word empowering. It’s really empowering to understand the ability we actually have to take control of our reality, our body, to guide it. We all have that higher functioning self that can do these things, that can find what works for you.

And I think when I throw out all these options of maybe some of those — micro, we can talk about some habitual — it’s knowing that something that works for my nervous system might not work for yours. And so we have to all do a little bit of experimentation and feel empowered to be, well, that was not my thing. And I want to try to find something that is.

So we really can experiment with all of these different ways to feel calm and to shift and to find that resilience. And it’s exciting. And like I said, empowering to say I’m in charge of this, and even a simple one more really good, interesting micro one is literally just taking command and saying that, which is find my center. Do it with me. Say it. Say it again. Find my center.

Find my center.

Find my center.

We are instructing our nervous system to do that. And there’s parts of us that are listening that’s like, oh, what? OK. And we can engage with that. Find my center. Find my alignment. And it’s listening.

Yeah, that’s awesome. Well, let’s move into habitual. You gave us great examples there. What are these habitual things, the daily, weekly things we can be doing?

Yeah. So again, you’re going to find the ones that are really typical and common that are super important. And I could spend some time on. But I think that your listeners probably have a good grip on some of these things, like mindfulness and meditation and loving kindness meditations. Those things are wonderful and deserve a huge spotlight. And I think offering a few maybe newer, different kinds is also helpful.

Some more powerful ones. One is mental imagery or visualization. So again, we’re accessing different parts of the brain there. The brain doesn’t know the difference between something you’re visualizing and something that you’re actually doing. And that’s super important when you look at performance, and how we condition ourselves, how we create resiliency and respond.

There’s some interesting studies done on athletes and Olympians of their imagery and their visualization of what their intended result is, what they want. It’s so powerful. So we can also use that mental imagery for a state of calm, for a state of groundedness, for a state of where is your peaceful spot? How do you access that? How do you see yourself as your highest functioning self and shift into that?

So mental imagery is fun, and it’s light, and it builds on itself the more you practice it. And it’s just, it’s enjoyable for most people to find where do you want to be? I’m really often in Colorado. Often in Colorado, I hear Aspen leaves on the trees that are fluttering against each other. I just hear it, and I can feel that.

Again, a lot of those acupuncture or acupressure pieces are super useful because we’re dealing with nervous system. We’re dealing with points. We’re dealing with fascia, like fascia release. And that is all super regulating. That fascia, it plays a profound role in the nervous system more than we know. So things also like massage and other things.

But that acupressure mats if you don’t want to do acupuncture you’re not into needles, acupressure mats are awesome. Doing 5 to 10 minutes of that a day really creates resiliency because, essentially, you’re putting yourself in a little bit of a state of stress and learning how to be calm despite that. So you create a ton of resilience with that.

Other somatic pieces like qigong and Tai Chi, it’s this somatic movement where you really create that, again, release in your body, but offer it this really calm way of responding. That has some really long-lasting effects. Even a small amount doing more of those movement pieces makes a ton of difference in that, again, conditioning of your nervous system and resilience. Do you want me to pause? I feel like I’m just keep going. Do we have any questions?

I was just thinking about that acupressure mat. I recently got one of those. I have it just often laying out in my house as something. It’s just a reminder, just go lay on it or even step on it sometimes.

Yeah. feels.

It’s a little intense, but it’s like that breathing that connects you with that breath. I’m going to breathe now. I’m going to feel through this. And I just feel that’s something — it’s not a very expensive tool to have in your home or something a resource to have on hand. Totally.

You can put that under your feet at your desk.

Yeah.

And just slowly put some pressure down, and it, again, then is working on those nerve endings and the nervous system in general. It’s really grounding. I actually, just I have one of those vibration plates, so that somatic shaking. I have that under my desk. I’ll turn that on for 5 minutes every once in a while in between sessions or whatever I’m doing.

And it just, again, that somatic shaking is a huge trauma release for people, and it communicates with the whole body. And like I said, the fascia and the nervous system. It’s really lovely.

Hey, I shared a message post-class today, and I shared it in Molly, our producer, and Jamie this morning, he was talking about human connection, talking about relationships. And I always talk about energy being contagious. Right. So whether it’s calm or chaotic, if you walk into a room, you probably know without a word being said what the vibe is, whether it’s on or off.

So just building on that, how can we be more intentional with the energy we carry? In the space that I’m in, usually people are coming because they want to be a part of high frequency energy. So I like to flip it also and say, more importantly, how can we help others regulate and rise as they walk through and navigate life?

Yeah. I think this is probably the most important piece. It certainly is for me. That’s my as that relational therapist piece. But we’re supposed to be in community. We’re supposed to be in these very real social connections. And the research is so clear about how we affect each other. And an example of that is someone, let’s say, that has a pretty significant trauma history, where maybe they are less secure or have had less positive social interactions, and so they might lead with a little bit more fear, let’s say, or hypervigilance.

Research really shows that if they’re connected to safe people, that can raise their resilience just by being around them, just by listening to their nervous system. These mirror neurons concept of I’m watching you, and I’m taking cues from your nervous system, things that we’re not even in conscious awareness that we’re observing from each other.

Microexpressions, how we carry ourselves, the energy, like you’re saying, that we’re sending is picked up whether we know it or not. And so one, do the work for yourself because we are deserving of feeling joy and calm and peace. And we’re not supposed to be in this chronic state of activation and stress.

And so one, do it for yourself. If that be some of these micro habitual or those macro pieces for me are more of those therapeutic things if you have to really get in there and rewire and go deeper with things like therapy or hypnotherapy or EMDR or things that really help release some of the more significant stuff, do it for yourself. And then notice that you’re also then doing it for your community, for other people, for the, maybe, intimate relationships you’re in or the way that you parent.

If you are regulated, people around you will feel it from, again, that nervous system perspective, but also just that frequency. Because we’re able to access higher parts. We’re able to access parts of us that can feel joy to a more extreme, can feel abundance, can feel some peace. And that absolutely, when you say is contagious, that’s real. We feel frequency. It attracts frequency.

And you can even do that with — that’s another intervention is frequency healing. Sound frequency is incredibly helpful for the nervous system, from bilateral stimulation to binaural beats to just certain Hertz that you can listen to because that’s real. And so we can choose to be part of the solution for ourselves and other people, which is I’m a safe person. I enjoy being a safe person. That’s how I want to walk on Earth. That’s how I want people to receive me. And be on the receiving end of me. I want them to leave and walk away from me feeling better than worse.

And we can absolutely make that decision, which is I’m going to send signals of safety, both by having a calm nervous system to the best of my ability and to even say it. And whatever we need to do to, just say you matter. You’re good. You can be imperfect and still matter to me. I’m not expecting perfection from you. It’s OK to not be emotionally sound all the time. And I’m still a safe space for you. So anything that we can do to communicate that helps us. And it helps everyone.

Absolutely.

And people need it now more than ever.

Exactly. So Brie, one of the things that you did recently, we were in a meeting, it was probably a couple months ago now. It was a little bit of a stressful meeting, if I’m remembering correctly, a little bit intense. And you took a moment to bring us all back to center we were in, and you introduced the idea of havening to a lot of us. And I would love for you to talk about that. And some of those, just — again, we talked about some of the in-the-moment things, but I do want to visit that because I remember sitting in that room with you and several other people and just feeling the energy shift among the group in that moment. So can you talk a little about havening and some of the other little things that you’ve done. I know there’s tapping as well.

Yeah, havening is fun. It is a newer one to me, and it evolved from a little bit of that trauma perspective, again, of how do we, as quickly as possible, help our nervous system shift from a state of activation into a state of calm. And I think a lot of times for people that have experienced trauma, you need a therapist to do that with you. You need someone to come in and help co-regulate or do something like EMDR or ART therapy. These things that are super helpful, and I really endorse them.

And not everyone has access to that or has time to do it. And so what havening is it’s very much a self processing type of therapy where you can do this stuff for yourself. You can show up really in simple ways to communicate safety and processing to the nervous system. Oh, my gosh. It’s really cool. So look it up. It’s called havening.

I’ll talk about two of the easier techniques with it. One is just, it’s essentially like rubbing your hands together. So for people that can’t see, I’ll do my best to describe it. But we’re just going back and forth, rubbing our palms together. And I’m going to lack the actual scientific terms for what this is communicating.

But again, most of our nervous system ends in those hands and feet. So we are able to really operate with this very soft and continuous touch. It’s very regulating.

And this you can do under — you can do this in front of people. You’ll actually see people that do this naturally, that are kind of like those hand wringers. And so sometimes that’s just them trying to regulate their nervous system, whether they’re aware of it or not, which is so cool. And so how easy is that? That takes 30 seconds.

The second one is, you’re going to start with your hands crossed, with your hands on top of your shoulders, and you’re just going to slowly move your hands down to your elbows. And you’re going to go back up one-directionally. Back up to shoulders, down to elbows. And you’re just going to run your hands down. And the receptors in our skin are really observing this right now.

And again, I could probably deepen the science on it, but it really is just communicating this very soft, tender touch that helps us process. Again, if we’re feeling unsafe or just when we’re not necessarily dysregulated, but doing that frequently is going to communicate again, like, hey, I’m good, I’m safe. And I know how to come back to a state of calm if I get activated. So those are two techniques from havening that I just love that people can do for themselves.

There’s just like something very comforting about that one in particular for me. I don’t know what it is, but it’s something that’s there. It’s actually something that I came home that night, and I just want to be — like, that was happening in a corporate setting. It was really this powerful moment. It was this really interesting moment to see everybody there embrace this.

But I brought it home that night and I shared it with my family, including my tween and teenage girls. And it’s like, this is something you can do for yourself. How can we also then pass these things along that are doable to start to teach our kids, the next generation, how to do this too? So I just thought that was —

I love that.

—yeah.

That’s ripple effect that’s so important. Again and modeling it, A, as a parent or as a leader, and saying like, this is normal. It’s also super normal to be dysregulated. I don’t think that the goal here is ever to not get dysregulated. We’re going to be. Both from a normal activation standpoint and from that chronic stress point.

There’s variables that we can’t control that are going to cause us to feel this way. And so I think it’s just normalizing saying, hey, what do you do? Help me. Let’s share this language of, I’m whacked out right now, what can we do? It’s so funny because I’m just like, I’m in it today. I’ve got so many stressors. I’ve had to do so much regulation today, and I’m still kind of whacked out.

And it’s just like that normal concept that we are going to experience this, and we have to do our best, at least 60% of the time, more than half, to shift so that we don’t end up in those more chronic stress states that can take a huge toll on all areas of our body. Like physiologically and psychologically.

Shift, the word shift. You just said it. Then Jamie said, as parents, so for those who have kids, or if you are a kid and you’re listening, I think it would be of great value. Once again, we talked about energy being contagious. And you said, modeling the behavior. But as a parent, the frustration, the struggle, the energy that we just exerted at work and now we have to shift the energy to oh, it’s family time. And then not listening, repeating ourselves yourself.

Can you help both kids listening as well as parents, so it’s a two-part question here. But how to help regulate that? Because I mean, I know it’s not a one-size-fits-all answer, but I think that’s a struggle that so many go through. So.

I think, one, again, is just normalizing that it’s normal to be dysregulated. It’s not that we have to have any perfection in our own nervous system as a parent. So what I typically do with that, is when I’m feeling it, I usually say, oh, mom’s feeling like she’s about to get big mad. I’m starting to really feel it. Because I’m normalizing, hey, I’m activated. This is going to be a part of your human experience.

You’re not supposed to just be happy, regulated, and listen all the time. You’re going to have these moments and I’m going to model, I’m having one, what am I going to do with it? And so as a parent saying it, normalizing it, and then doing something productive with it, if you can. Which is, I’m going to take a break. Mom’s going to breathe. This is what I’m going to do. I’m going to go on a little walk, because I know that walking really helps me. Or, I’m going to go outside and put my feet on the ground. Do you want to come with me?

And so doing what we can to, again, name it, and do something productive with it if we can. And if we can’t, let’s say we’re like in that space where we’re just tipped in that direction and we do get frustrated, or we raise our voice, or we just act in some way that we wouldn’t normally want to parent, that’s also normal. And we just take accountability and repair.

So the best thing we can do for our kids is say, hey, this is normal to be having this human response. We do our very best we can to be as functional in the space as we can, and sometimes we’re not going to be able to. And that’s when I say, I’m sorry. I wish I would have done that better. Can I try again? And we model that accountability and repair for that part of humanity that’s going to happen.

Yeah.

And I think part of it is normalizing that kids are going through developmental stages where we can’t actually require their brain to do what we want it to do. They don’t have the capacity. They don’t have a frontal cortex that’s developed. There’s a great book called The Whole Brain Child that really helps us understand what kids can understand and tolerate, and be expected to do at their developmental level.

And that sometimes just helps parents to normalize, yeah, my five-year-old, he’s not going to listen. And I actually want him to push back because he’s learning this skill to not just accept reality, but to have critical thinking and to say, I’m not sure if I want to do that. And even though it’s super frustrating in the moment, it’s actually absolutely part of his development.

Yeah.

So.

I mean, you’ve seen this over the years. You’ve seen the situations, and obviously to each his own on this, but where kids now are almost forced into those growth patterns to have to accelerate and mature, if you will, in these situations. Because whether the parent is not around, they’re always working or just being absent, and now they’re the caretaker for their siblings. So is that a form of trauma because they’re now missing out on what they’re supposed to be doing as far as being a kid, and they’re now being what an adult should be to them? Like, so what’s your thoughts there?

Yeah, I mean, certainly there’s a lot of complexity there. But it can be described as a certain type of trauma because in there’s neglect. There’s neglect from what they had a birthright to have from their parent. And then it’s called parentification, where they’re required to be more mature at an age than they can really tolerate. And so it kind of does force that development.

And so it is from the top and then from the bottom, you’re going to experience some of those relational trauma bits. And no one escapes having some relational trauma, big T traumas or little t traumas. And so a lot of times, that’s going to be something that they can address when there is more safety in their life, when they’re out of that situation.

For the most part, kids are going to figure out how to adapt, and they’re so adaptable. They’ll figure out how to survive that for the most part. And then later in life, when they have access to safety, and safer relationships, and resources, thank goodness for this, that the nervous system, there’s plasticity where we can rewire and we can have these conversations.

Which is, hey, you really had to be super vigilant. You really had to be an adult. What can we do to introduce some play into your life and some spontaneity? Because now you’re safe, and you’ve made it. And we can thank that part of you that’s survived. And it’s because of that part of you we survived and we can just love on them while also now incorporating ways that you can reparent and heal, that you didn’t get to do when you were little. If that makes sense.

It’s good. Yeah.

No, it makes total sense. It’s just so interesting. It’s like, this is so useful. Just even having this conversation hopefully, is helping people no matter what stage of life they’re in, whether it’s a kid listening or whatever their age, just being able to see, we all to your point earlier in the episode, this is something that we do have choices around when we’re willing to be aware, to acknowledge, to activate, as you said, David. So, it takes practice, though. And again, that’s just something we all have to be always aware of.

Yeah. I mean, it’s like a mental workout if you really think about it. If you put it in that context of a mental workout where the more you do it, the more results you’re going to see, no matter what we’re talking about, the more you show up for yourself in these ways — you wouldn’t go up to the fitness floor lift once and expect to see definition in your bicep. That’s crazy. And so it’s not like, hey, I tried EFT tapping once and I thought it was silly. And it didn’t help.

Well, we have to show up with some frequency to actually rewire. And the good part is it works. It does. But it does require showing up for yourself in these ways as frequently as you can to really see —

absolutely.

—some difference.

All right. We covered a lot of ground. Did we miss anything that you wanted to make sure to touch on in our conversation today? Whether it’s another activity, or another practice, or just an idea that you wanted to make sure to get across to our listeners and viewers?

I’m hearing the word normalize, which is just really normalizing that no one escapes this. No one escapes this concept of activation or even dysregulation because as we’re just really set up in our society. And again, how things are, our systems, to experience some chronic stress. With even just trying to balance what it means to work full-time, and raise a family, and again, some of those more global pieces, is that we’re going to experience chronic stress. And that’s just really normal.

And so there’s nothing wrong with that. We’re not broken. This isn’t something horrible. This is just something that we need to be aware of, and say, we’re going to experience some dysregulation, and what do we want to do to help that. And we have so much choice. And there’s so many options. There’s so many resources. And it can get better. And you can feel good in your body with little bits of effort.

Hmm. All right. I feel like it’s mic-drop moment time. You ready, Brie?

Ready.

All right. So we categorize mental health for certain months or days, versus, this is a practice that we should have every day beyond the month. So as a male, from my perspective, I’ve been in the category of when something’s wrong, I’m still saying, oh, I’m good, I’m fine, as a default. So for our listeners, what’s a subtle sign that someone’s nervous system is just screaming for help, even everything looks fine on the outside?

Yeah. I think that this is — I think you’re asking for what some people can look for in others. And what I would encourage is, first and foremost, anyone that’s listening that is curious about this is to increase their own self-awareness and connection with self. Because this really is this concept of interdependence where we are in charge of our own growth and well-being and then people can be our backup.

Right.

And so it’s this very tender approach of caring about yourself and looking for what that is for you in terms of, how do I know when I’m well versus when I’m not well? And things can be subtle and they can be screaming. And so some of those, are I’m hearing sleep disturbances. That’s a huge one. When I just can’t sleep, I can’t rest.

There’s an interesting one where people that really are super activated and they are maybe ignoring the triggers of why or they don’t want to process that, they’re going to actually avoid rest. So if you’re avoiding rest or you watch people really people-pleasing. And you notice that in yourself or they’re doing it for others. When you’re overthinking, or you’re feeling emotionally shut down, or you’re having any sudden outbursts.

You’re just noticing that, I am having a hard time just being in my body, and things really set me off really quickly. That’s usually because we’re at a tipping point. At that point, we don’t have enough balance going on of the good stuff, of the regulating stuff, to really balance out stresses and the triggers that we’re having.

So like I said, it can look different for everyone.

Right.

People-pleasing is a huge one for women a lot of the times, where they’re going to just really throw themselves away in their reality. When you’re going to watch people just say yes and not challenge. And then I would say one other thing is just that emotional shutdown. So there’s that freeze state where you just stop feeling in general, that’s when you’re really screaming.

So when we think of fight, flight, or freeze, that freeze state for people where they actually look like they’re fine, they’re like, I’m good, but they’re actually living behind a wall at that point. And they shut down their connection to themselves, their emotions so that they can just tolerate things. And so they’re going to look like, oh, well, they seem fine, but there’s kind of a lack of vitality there. That’s that freeze state. That’s the most extreme one.

And, I mean, once again, I’m trying to get free therapy session in, but yeah, I’m speaking on behalf of men. I don’t know why so many men don’t ask for help so that’s why I’m asking for those who are listening to be more vulnerable.

Yeah, I mean, even just the socialization piece. So men are very much socialized out of their fear and their pain, and women are typically socialized out of their anger. And that means like what we accept, and what is right, and what is good, right? And that message is so loud and it has been for generations, again, that safe space. Or, what men need to be, they need to be a rock. And if somebody is crying, what does that mean? They’re not strong enough.

There’s so many messages that have been sent for generations of what men really should be. And unfortunately, we can’t escape all of those eight basic emotions. Every human is designed — we have the same brains for the most part. We are designed to feel all eight emotions every day, so we can’t get around it. We just kind of either freeze it or stop connecting to it, which leads to so much dysregulation. And just not feeling whole, not feeling good.

And it very much — you’re going to see it mostly interrupt our ability to have functional relationships. So not only do men probably not feel well inside because they’re not having that holistic experience, and they’re shutting down things that really would allow them to have, again, like a congruent experience to their reality. Hey, that was scary. That was super scary. I get to be fearful for a moment.

Or, I’m in deep grief, and I’m in pain right now, and I deserve to be able to experience that. And when we kind of numb that, we’re not having our whole human experience and then we can’t connect with maybe others in our life who are experiencing those things. Pain is one of those. It’s the most uniting emotion. It’s strength is unity.

When I think of how do I describe that to people, is some of the best hugs I’ve ever received, have been at funerals where you’re in pain and you see each other and you let that heart connect. And you’re just holding space for each other. And like, that is deeply important for connection. And when we numb that, we really miss out on these super important and vulnerable parts to relationships that are necessary.

So I encourage men to understand, we’re supposed to feel all those things. There’s nothing weak about that. That’s a normal human response. You’re having congruent responses to your reality when you’re experiencing all of those emotions. And this one helps too. Usually, an emotion only lasts anywhere from 30 to 90 seconds. You can tolerate that.

Yeah.

Yep.

And if you need help tolerating that, skills, those distress tolerance, there’s people that can help with that. We just have just an easier human experience when we’re allowed to feel.

Hmm, appreciate that.

I love that. All right, Brie. We’ve covered a lot of ground here today, but we want to make sure that people know where they can find you. I know there’s mind@lifetime.life as a resource as well. What else? Is there anywhere else you want to point people to connect with you?

Just kind of giggling about that myself where I’ve not taken up as much space in that online sphere as I could professionally. So would say LinkedIn is a way that you can always message me if you aren’t a part of that Lifetime network, where you can reach me, Brie Vortherms. Send me a message if you have questions, or anything that you want to deepen from this conversation. I am super responsive on there.

And yeah, mind.lifetime.life does just show a little bit of what we do with Lifetime Mind, and it does have some resources on there. Some things that we’re talking about, it has some guides, and some offerings of techniques, and all of that. So that’s a great place to land that’s a little bit more global too.

Yeah, and as you’re just saying that, I’m also realizing we have a few articles and things both from you and your colleagues at experiencelife.lifetime.life that offer practices that are great like this. And we’ll make sure to link a lot of this in our show notes. So, Brie, thank you, as always, for coming on. It feels like, like David said, a little bit like our own personal therapy session, because we learn so much and we get to take away so much from it too. And I think — and then we get to share it out. So thank you for always being a great resource for us.

Oh, thanks. It’s such an honor. I would take any opportunity to have conversations like this. This is how we help each other. So, thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks, Brie.

Yep.

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