Workplace Burnout Is Real: Signs, Symptoms & How to Take Action

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Transcript: Workplace Burnout Is Real: Signs, Symptoms & How to Take Action

Season 7, Episode 11  | October 24, 2023

Jamie Martin:
Welcome to Life Time Talks, the podcast that’s aimed at helping you achieve your health, fitness, and life goals. I’m Jamie Martin, editor and chief of Experience Life, Life Time’s whole life health and fitness magazine.

David Freeman:
And I’m David Freeman, director of Alpha, one of Life Time’s signature group training programs. We’re all in different places along our health and fitness journey but no matter what we’re working toward there’s some essential things we can do to keep moving in the direction of a healthy purpose driven life.

Jamie Martin:
In each episode, we break down various elements of healthy living including fitness and nutrition, mindset and community, and health issues. We’ll also share real, inspiring stories of transformation.

David Freeman:
And we’ll be talking to experts from Life Time and beyond who will share their insights and knowledge, so you have the tools and information you need to take charge of your next steps. Here we go.

Jamie Martin:
Welcome to Life Time Talks, I’m Jamie Martin.

David Freeman:
And I’m David Freeman.

Jamie Martin:
And in this mini episode, we are talking about burnout. Professional burnout rates are at an all-time high across many, many industries and since the pandemic they’re particularly acute in healthcare fields and our always on 24/7 connected culture is obviously part of the issue. So, many of us are carrying work in our pockets. We’re never really disconnecting. There’s just so many things that keep us going and on all the time and that’s kind of leading to some of this burnout.

So, we’re going to delve into that in this episode and back with us we have Doctor Henry Emmons. Doctor Emmons is an integrative psychiatrist who integrates mind, body, and natural therapies, mindfulness and neuroscience into his clinical work. He is the author of the Chemistry of Joy and the Chemistry of Calm. He’s the founder of naturalmentalhealth.com, a website that’s devoted to making integrative mental health resources more accessible, affordable, and empowering for more people, and you can hear him weekly on his Joy Lab podcast at joylab.coach. Doctor Emmons, welcome back to the pod.

Henry Emmons:
Yes, thanks so much for having me back.

Jamie Martin:
I feel like since the first time you came on we’re all like more experienced podcast experts at this point.

Henry Emmons:
I know. That’s true isn’t it. One does get better with practice hopefully.

David Freeman:
We talk about reps all the time. So, Doctor Em this is going to be a mini episode. We’re going to dive right into it. So, for those who don’t know, can you explain exactly what burnout is.

Henry Emmons:
Sure. Sure. It’s very much like it sounds. It’s when you’ve been focusing so much time and energy and experiencing so much stress in something that you begin to get depleted, exhausted, restless, just lose your interest or drive for what you’re doing, and it can happen to anybody at any level of profession or career or work-related thing. So, it’s a great topic right now because it’s happening to just so many people in professions, all kinds of professions and really throughout our society.

Jamie Martin:
It’s interesting because, you know, I am just going to go a little bit personal here for a second. You know, I’ve always been a super engaged person in my role in my career but there was a time during the pandemic when I almost started feeling a little bit numb, you know, to some of the things. it was like there was a lot going on but even the work started feeling like…I felt a little disengaged or separate from it and is that part of it too like kind of feeling like I’m just not quite as in it as I was.

Henry Emmons:
You know, you’ve just really hit upon a key part of what is behind the burnout phenomenon, which is engagement. You know, I think a lot of the research is showing pretty alarming numbers for how few people really feel engaged in their work these days, at least in our society, and I think that that’s a lot of what gets behind burnout because if you’re really engaged in what you’re doing, if you’re in the flow, you can be really stressed and you can work really hard and long hours but still not get burned out, at least not for a while. I do think there’s a limit. We all have different limits, different capacities for staying in that high alert, high stress for very long but that engagement is a really important key. I want to come back to that later because there’s a way to think about this that I think helps us look at some solutions, but it’s a really important piece of this puzzle.

David Freeman:
Doc, in your notes for this episode, you talked about the similarities between burnout and depression. I want you to talk about that and not to kind of direct you on how to but when you think of purpose and passion because they’re sometimes entwined in a lot of ways. When I’m passionate about something obviously I feel like that is like the strong intense emotion with my enthusiasm towards something and then purpose on the other hand is my reason why, right, the reason why I’m here and I think when you think of burnout, at least this is my interpretation, that’s when that passion starts to dwindle away and that’s why I want to understand that difference if you can between burnout and then also this word that I just hit on depression and how that kind of intertwines within passion and purpose.

Henry Emmons:
Yeah. I think if you talked with someone or looked at someone who let’s say is experiencing burnout, they might look a lot like someone with depression. There’s a lot of similarities and a lot of overlap. I think, you know, both of those things there’s often this feeling of emotional exhaustion, a loss of interest in things, maybe not getting as much enjoyment or satisfaction out of things. I think that the difference is that, you know, hopefully burnout is a little more temporary or easier to get out of. It’s not as biological or physical, hopefully, although I think it can kind of blend into that too. I think it sets people up for depression, but also I think as you were pointing out it is related to something different. It’s related to this sense of what gives you meaning, what’s your purpose, what is it that drives you and have you lost that. I think it is a state of depletion or exhaustion of that juice that would otherwise really keep us going.

Jamie Martin:
So, if somebody is, you know, they’re not feeling connected, they’re not being engaged, you know, are those symptoms, what are things people should look for or are there signs that you’re in burnout and burnout that might be leading toward depression?

Henry Emmons:
Yes. So, I’m most familiar with the research on physician burnout here which I think is applicable to a lot of other things. So, a lot of the early warning signs are like just not being as interested in your work or in your patients, maybe having more irritability, you know, or impatience let’s say. Feeling like you’re always pressured, you always have to keep moving faster and you don’t give that really important focus and time to the person in front of you. I think too that it’s when you are just no longer drawing much satisfaction from your work. So, it doesn’t feel pleasurable or enjoyable anymore and you don’t want to learn more or read about it. Some of those things are showing some signs that what drew you to this in the first place and what gave you that sense of purpose and passion is no longer working for you.

David Freemon:
You know what Doctor, I speak a lot about this when I go around the country and I talk about identity and knowing who you are and why you do what you do and when you say that drain, in your case you’re talking about physicians, you’re seeing all these different individuals and they have different things that they’re sharing with you, as I relate it to health and fitness in those individuals who may be coming in to get stronger faster and just better in life, the one thing that I strongly encourage is going back to the why and making sure you’re consuming items that light that fire again because if you do continue just to go through the motions of the day to day and you’re not filling up that cup that got you excited and honestly continue to evolve within your craft, I feel like that’s also the byproduct of burnout because you cant do the same thing 10 years ago that you now are doing today. So, can you give us some other supporting tools that can help prevent and be proactive around burnout so you can get ahead of it?

Henry Emmons:
Yeah. So, this is kind of getting back to that sense of meaning and just that real engagement in one’s work and there’s some really interesting research that is done with physician burnout here again, showing that they don’t need to feel that every moment or every encounter is meaningful. In other words, you don’t have to be always jazzed a hundred percent by what you’re doing but you do need some of it and the percentage that they have come up with in the research is about 20 percent. So, in other words, if roughly 20 percent of your time and effort feels meaningful to you, feels like you’re engaged and it still gives you that sense of meaning and satisfaction that’s enough, at least for physicians. That’s enough to keep them going, still have that sense of oh yeah this is why I went into this in the first place, but you got to have some, and I think that that’s really important for people working, you know, say the healthcare field trying to prevent all these professionals from leaving the field.

But this is happening a lot in education. Education is I think in crisis and it’s likely to get worse if this isn’t addressed because again they’ve got to have some of this that is feeding them, that is giving them that sense that okay this is why I’m doing this. This is still really important to me. I think it’s also helpful, kind of to your point, this is something that I have had to do periodically in my career is that I need to take a little time to go back to my original why is it, what is it that drew me to this in the first place and am I still kind of living that out or if not what’s getting in my way here because if I just go back and renew my original intention or maybe refine it and improve it over time, which hopefully happens as well, then I can keep going for a long time. I don’t need to do it every day or every week. I can do it every year or even every few years, but I got to have something that gives me a little chance to reflect and renew.

Jamie martin:
I love that little bit of going back to the start, right, like what got us here. There’s also something on the flip side of that is like in many of our industries that we’re working change is happening rapidly. So, is there something with coming out of burnout around like continuing to learn or being curious. What role do those play in, you know, combating burnout? Do they play a role?

Henry Emmons:
I think they do and again looking back at my own career, for me it was often just that, it was going back and learning something new or really having a chance to do a deep dive into something that I was really interested in even if it wasn’t necessarily something that fit with what people thought a psychiatrist should be doing. You know, so like for me, learning about mindfulness or spirituality or nutrition, you know, those things that really kept me going and kind of revamped my career was super important and some of it is just the joy of learning new things and I think some of it is having the wisdom to follow your own inclinations. What is it that really draws your interest that you’re actually really passionate about yourself whether or not someone else tells you that that’s important for your own work.

Jamie Martin:
I want to jump in David with one more thing here tied to that because, you know, I’ve heard for some people it just might be like I’ve heard about like if you’re in burnout and you’re not finding that reconnection to the why, the opportunities to explore new opportunities, to put yourself out there to try something new in your space, and that kind of goes back to the learning but sometimes burnout really can be a sign that a change is needed. Are you seeing that in any space or what are you seeing there?

Henry Emmons:
Yes, I am. I think for physicians for example, health professionals, I think this is a really positive change and that is a lot of people are becoming more interested in these holistic or integrative therapies because it feels a little more aligned with who they are or why they went into the field in the first place and it might really be a diversion or a shift from what they thought their career path was going to be but it’s one that feels really exciting and renewing and I think that’s true in other fields as well that sometimes, you know, you really do need to make a change, maybe even a significant change in direction, not just working for someone else but doing the same thing but actually kind of augmenting your skillset and going in a direction that feels a little more aligned with who you are.

David Freeman:
I feel like the environment plays a huge role in this too. So, like if we’re talking about, let’s go to the health and fitness for example, if you’re doing things daily that are pouring into individuals and you’re super passionate about it and you’re helping change lives, something as simple as hey Jamie I appreciate you, you’re doing awesome, and when you hear those things, obviously words of affirmation and validation feels good but that sense of appreciation kind of fires you up again going back and remind you of this is why I do what I do and I think if you’re doing a lot and you might not hear it and you’re busting your butt and you know you’re changing lives, oh man, the art of just saying something as simple as thank you, like you really have helped me goes a long way.

So, I think that’s also the environment, the culture that you create within that space, that sense of appreciation. I remember when the pandemic hit why so many people left, it was three reasons. The number one reason was not feeling valued. The number two was no clear path of succession. Like I don’t know what the next step is for me, and guess what, the number three which everybody thought was going to be number one, financial. So, to me going back to understanding your environment and creating that sense of value goes a long way that can also be a preventative when we talk about burnout.

Henry Emmons:
Yeah. I think there’s actually some good research on this that, you know, your financial needs by and large do get met at a certain level and then it’s not as big a driver of passion for example. It’s not what really draws people to work beyond a certain point, and then, you know, what are the big drivers and one of them is I think this sense of being appreciated. It’s a pretty simple thing but it is so powerful. It’s just like you said, and I think it gets at one of the key solutions to burnout which is to create genuine connections in your whatever your place is and that’s a super effective way to do it. Simple and effective to actually feel the appreciation for what another is doing and then to communicate it, not just keep it to yourself but say it. Let them know.

Jamie Martin:
Yeah. So, let’s delve into that. You noted in your notes for this that there are kind of short term and long-term solutions for burnout. So, let’s delve into those for a few minutes.

Henry Emmons:
Yeah. So, I’m going to give you four or five things that I think are really useful and the shorter-term things I think are a lot about kind of self-management if you will. And so, one of those is to think more about managing your energy rather than managing your time. And so, to me that’s a really nice way of thinking about burnout prevention because energy is kind of the capital that we’re working with here and it is different, you know, it means really thinking about when do I start to feel tired or depleted. How long am I actually able to focus without taking a break and be productive. What are the things in my environment here that are giving me energy and what are the things that are taking it away.

I’ll say a second thing that I think is short term even though this is a Life Time skill to develop and that is to be more aware, to turn your attention or your awareness toward yourself as you’re engaged in your work. So, really thinking how am I really doing. What are the things that are triggering me? Who are the people or what are the activities that restore me or deplete me and just really applying that self-awareness to your situation at work. A third thing which might have really short-term implications but it’s another long-term practice is to embrace imperfection and I cannot tell you how important this is for physicians and others in healthcare because we have been kind of taught we got to be perfect.

You can’t make mistakes. Mistakes are too high, and it just sort of draws people who are kind of perfectionists. So, that’s a really, really key thing, and then I think connecting with others. We recently talked about loneliness and isolation and having these meaningful genuine connections at work. Create like a sense of belonging at work is really, really key. And then we’ve touched on this but again finding more meaning in your work, and again, it doesn’t have to be a ton, but you got to have some and if it’s not there then you might need to think about revamping, doing things differently.

Jamie Martin:
So, those are kind of short term but again as we said at the very top of this, these things take practice and there’s no such thing as a quick fix, you know, so what about some long-term solutions?

Henry Emmons:
Well, some of those things I just mentioned are things you can keep working on. Keep working on your self-awareness, keep creating a genuine sense of connection and belonging at work. I think too that long term I think it’s really important and helpful to keep going back to your sense of purpose and meaning. What is it that you really want to be about in this Life Time. That sounds like a big topic, but it can be pretty simple and just taking a little time to yourself to get away to do some reflecting is something that I think really can feed us and I like to think of this as our work, our career is in a sense it’s a journey towards authenticity. It is us becoming more and more ourselves in the way that we are giving back to the world, and I just think that’s a lifelong practice but it’s a really beautiful way to avoid burnout.

David Freeman:
Yeah. So, essentially the long-term is going to be the by product of all the short-term things that you do. So, planting the seed, essentially what we’re doing today, watering it, nurturing it is going to bear the fruits down the years to come. So, I love how you frame that up and any and everybody who’s listening there you go, just recapping it again. Understand that little step that you take today, tomorrow, next week and then fine tuning it and then before you know it it’s 90 days and before you know it it’s half a year and then that behavior changes and then now we’re at that long term that we were talking about a year ago. So, I love how you frame that up.

Jamie Martin:
Doctor Emmons, this is a mini episode, so anything you want to add before we sign off today?

Henry Emmons:
Well, you know, we spent a lot of time with our work. It’s a big, big part of our lives. I think it’s really worth putting the time and energy into trying to get it right for yourself.

Jamie Martin:
Well, if anyone wants to connect with Doctor Emmons, you can find his work at naturalmentalhealth.com and joylab.coach. He also has a regular column in Experience Life about his Joy Lab podcast. So, we’ll link to all that in the show notes. Doctor Emmons, always a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so much for taking the time with us.

Henry Emmons:
Delighted to be here. Thank you.

David Freeman:
Appreciate you brother. Thanks for joining us for this episode. As always, we love to hear your thoughts on our conversation today and how you approach this aspect of healthy living in your own life. What works for you, where do you run into challenges, where do you need help.

Jamie Martin:
And if you have topics for future episodes, you can share those with us too. Email us at lttalks@lifetime.life or reach out to us on Instagram @lifetime.life, @jamiemartinel and at freezy30 and use the hashtag Life Time Talks. You can also learn more about the podcast at Experiencelife.lifetime.life/podcasts.

David Freeman:
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Jamie Martin:
Thanks for listening. We’ll talk to you next time on Life Time Talks. Life Time Talks is a production of Life Time, Healthy Way of Life. It is produced by Molly Kopischke and Sara Ellingsworth, with audio engineering by Peter Perkins, video production and editing by Kevin Dickson, sound and video consulting by Corey Larson, and support from George Norman and the rest of the team at Life Time Motion.

David Freeman:
A big thank you to everyone who helps create each episode and provides feedback.