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Strength Train to Build Mental Muscle

With Konnor Fleming, Alpha Master Coach

Season 6, Episode 11 | February 22, 2023

Most people think about the impact of strength training on their physique — but sometimes it’s the mental benefits that can offer the greatest gains. Konnor Fleming, Alpha Master Coach, explains the advantages of a well-designed strength program, particularly the connection to mental and emotional health, and how those results can come from Alpha programming.

Konnor Fleming is an Alpha Master Coach based at Life Time in Edina, Minn. As a coach, he’s passionate about using fitness to shatter perceived limitations, both physically and mentally, and ensuring every athlete has a great time doing it.

There are several ways strength training can build mental resilience. Fleming offers this example as one illustration:

“In a workout, when you have a 30-second rest window before going to a bike or rower to just hammer it, you know that next action is going to be uncomfortable,” explains Fleming. “And so during that 30-second window, you’re left with the choice of either letting the anticipation overwhelm you and having fear making it worse than it is, or you can say, ‘I’m going to choose to be courageous in this moment and know that no matter what happens, I can go and give it my all.’

“That’s how it gets built inside of an Alpha class,” he continues, “but then you have the ability to go and apply that same courage, albeit in a different context, when you have to have a difficult conversation with your boss about the raise you deserve or with your partner about the parenting style you disagree with them on. It’s terrifying to do something like that, but to be courageous is to be courageous. Maybe you’re not huffing and puffing the same way you would on a bike, but resilience, courage, fortitude, discipline, humility — I believe that can be developed within the hour you spend in an Alpha class and then applied to the other 23 hours of your day.”

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Transcript: Strength Train to Build Mental Muscle

Season 6, Episode 11  | February 22, 2023

[MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to Life Time Talks, I’m Jamie Martin.

And I’m David Freeman.

And in this episode, we’re going a little bit more in depth on Alpha, which is one of our signature group training programs at Life Time. And we’re going to talk specifically about one of the factors in there that often comes out of it. So lifting for mental resilience, which we’re really excited about. Like, how does lifting help us from the mental emotional standpoint. So with that in mind, we’re talking to Konnor Fleming. Konnor is an Alpha Master Coach based out of Edina, Minnesota.

Originally from Vermont, Konnor came to Minnesota to attend Macalester College in 2011, and quickly found his home away from home here. We like it here. It’s a good place. As a coach, he’s passionate about using fitness to shatter perceived limitations both physically and mentally, and ensuring that every athlete has a great time doing it. When he’s not coaching, Konnor loves to commit time to his own training in Alpha classes, of course, spending time with his loved ones, and sneaking in time for a nap.

Little nap, nap.

Do you like naps, David?

I mean, I think pre-kids, yes. It was like– yes. But now, like, I got to find them wherever I can find them. Yeah. But they are powerful. They are powerful. They are game changers. When did you–

Criminally underrated, if I do say so myself.

I love that, Konnor.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Alright. So in our little mini-episode that we did, we covered the basics of Alpha. It’s an Olympic-style lifting and conditioning program, we got that part. But in this episode, we really want to focus on one of the elements that’s often unseen, you don’t see this side of it, it’s mental resilience. So how does an Alpha class help with this and why?

It’s a great question. And at risk of giving a bit of a nonanswer answer, I think, how is in everything that you’re doing. And then why is so that you can apply it into anything and everything that happens in the other 23 hours of the day. I’m a huge, huge proponent that the kind of work that you do when in an Alpha class, whether it’s strength training, or conditioning, or whatever, helps you build these psychological kind of hallmarks and principles that then you can go out and apply in everyday life.

I think the easiest example to point to, something I talk about in my classes all the time is to– in a workout, when you’ve got a 30-second rest window, and then you’re going to go and sit on a bike or sit on a rower and just hammer it, you know that’s going to be uncomfortable. And so during that time, within that 30-second window, you’re left with a little bit of a choice of, I can either let this overwhelm me and the fear makes it worse than it is, or I’m going to choose to be courageous in this moment and know that no matter what happens, I can go and give it my all.

And then that’s how it gets built inside of the context that is an Alpha class, but then the ability to go and apply that same courage albeit through a different application and context, that’s the same courage that goes to get you to have the difficult conversation with your boss about the raise that you deserve, or the difficult conversation with your partner about the parenting style that you fundamentally disagree with them.

It’s terrifying to go and do something like that, but to be courageous is to be courageous. Maybe you’re not huffing and puffing the same way that you would on a bike, your heart rate’s probably up to some extent if we’re being honest with ourselves, but to build that kind of resilience.

And courage is the layup example, but I’m talking about courage. I’m talking about fortitude. I’m talking about discipline. I’m talking about humility. Anything and everything that you want to be in the other 23 hours of your day, I believe, can be developed within the hour that you spend inside of an Alpha class through any means, frankly, that the class format would throw at you.

Well, and you used the word courageous there a lot, and I think– it’s Bernie Brown’s work I think it is and it goes back to– she often says, like, being vulnerable is being courageous. And when I think about an Alpha class when you’re trying something new, you’re willing to put yourself out there and potentially fail or miss it, or you’re also going to have these moments of just like, wow, I can’t believe that’s full of it. So there’s this vulnerability, but there’s also the confidence building that’s happening within that too.

Totally. And I think where people often get off track with that is they see it as one or the other, either you are going to be vulnerable and therefore fail, or you are going to be successful and therefore innately capable of it. When in truth, it is through the vulnerability, the willingness to go and try something that you may not have exposure to, and/or may not be good at yet that develops the capacity and the proficiency to then become that much more courageous in future attempts.

And then stemming from that courage, you’re that much more willing to go back at it, you’re that much willing to continue to improve. And it becomes a positive flywheel, not this negative self-fulfilling prophecy of, my God, I can’t do anything anymore, right?

That’s it. I mean, we’ve had a conversation or two before Konnor about, like, our North Star when we think of Alpha. And Alpha as a whole, we talk about how it is a mindset, and how it correlates to being a lifestyle, and you kind of just took it beyond the actual resort to beyond the four walls of Life Time. And when I think of the words that I’ve always shared as far as mind right, body right, it’s going into that place of the unknown that you are going to be uncomfortable. And how you go through that when you fail, because it’s inevitable, we always are going to fail, the change that happens from that experience is what it’s about.

And people have to understand, when you’re going through change, understand you’re evolving in that moment. So don’t look at a failure as, I lost. No, I just grew a little bit in this space. So bringing it back full circle, Konnor, you’ve had plenty of these experiences, I’m sure not only personally, but now with a lot of the athletes that you come in contact with. I’ve seen it showcased, obviously, on social with the challenge of why not you, or what if, and challenge them in that space as far as mentally. So can you share some of those stories that you’ve actually seen individuals go through that mental change, and how that has affected them in this space?

Yeah, 100%. I think when it comes to dismantling that kind of perceived limitation and setting themselves up, maybe not necessarily for failure, but certainly not optimally for success, in my experience, it kind of comes from one of two places. Either you don’t know what you don’t know– to be fair, if you’ve never lifted a heavy barbell before, you’re not going to know what heavy is supposed to feel like, never mind you’re supposed to know what heavy on the brink of failure feels like. And then frankly, you’re not going to know what failure is really going to feel like or is supposed to feel like.

So certainly, that’s a little bit more of the layup example or the easier barrier to entry from a coaching perspective is you watch somebody complete whatever it is, back squat just seems to be the example that I can’t get away from. And they do five repetitions, and they rerack the bar, and you ask them, hey, how did that feel? And they say, oh my God, that was the scariest thing I’ve ever done.

Which may be true, and also at the same time, it’s possible that I watched that happen and from my experience lifting a bar if nothing else, it looked like you could have done not 5, but 10, but 15, but 20 repetitions. You just don’t necessarily know what it’s supposed to feel like yet. And so I can have the opportunity to come in and say, well, humor me, let’s put a little more weight on the bar and let’s see what it feels like. And then they get to realize, my God, I am so much more capable than I realized. And then that starts the process and it becomes self-fulfilling in that way.

The other example which is a little bit harder to tease out is they know but they’re either unwilling or are afraid to go and do so. And that process I’ve found needs to be much more tactful in how you approach it and ends up being much more personalized based on the individual. Some people may be– I’ve had athletes who are, quote unquote, “afraid” of box jumps because once upon a time they missed a repetition in front of friends and got laughed at, or they failed a rep and hurt themselves, or what have you.

And so doing what you can to meet them where they’re at and recognize that it is A-OK to have the experiences that you’ve had, and I’m never going to try to take those things away from you. But don’t let those experiences and more often than not, I think, the false realities that you’ve built around what those experiences were dictate your right-now, in-this-moment potential and capacity as they’re going through whatever they’re going through.

Absolutely. So shifting into the programming that is Alpha a little bit. I mean, what I really love about it, it’s intentionally periodized to help you continue to make progress over time, and then you have your power portion of it, and then you take– there’s a rest period within that too. But what’s interesting about when you take that kind of periodized approach is that plateaus don’t necessarily happen. So talk to that a little bit, and, like, why are these programs set up the way they are to help people continue making gains.

Right, gains. Capital Z on gains always. That’s it. So honestly, it’s one of my favorite things about the Alpha programming is no matter the individual, it is impossible to outgrow what’s happening in Alpha.

And so from a strength standpoint like you’re talking about, Jamie, that’s exactly why the programming is built the way that it’s built. You spend four weeks building endurance, relatively high volume, relatively low load, you move into resistance, where it become moderate load and moderate volume, and then shift into power, lower load, but really high weights relative for the individual. And over the course of that process, you are getting stronger.

And then it crescendos, if you will, at the end of the power phase where you go and establish one or two or three rep maxes that you realize from where you were at 12 weeks ago, the floor has elevated from where you began.

And then you start the process anew. But this time, you’re not starting from zero, you’re starting from two, or from one and a half, or three, depending on maybe how the last 12 weeks went. And so you lift at heavier loads albeit the same percentage, and then you can just continue with that exact process as long as you want to to get as strong as you want to get in any given movement pattern.

So that, on the one hand, from a strength standpoint is where Alpha shines. From a conditioning standpoint, you can always manipulate whether it’s speed, load, or volume. There are always variables that you can adjust either as a coach or as an athlete within the Metcon, within the conditioning piece. You’re saying this, quote unquote, “isn’t hard enough?” Alright, sweetheart, go faster. Alright, sweetheart that 100-pound dumbbell’s cucked in a lot of dust over there, why don’t you go give that a spin instead of your whatever.

And I don’t mean to sound condescending, it’s just oftentimes these people maybe either don’t know what they don’t know. They just take it for granted that I have to do this thing because it says to do this thing, when in truth there are ways to make those tactical adjustments to ensure that no matter what, you’re never going to, quote unquote, “outwork or outgrow” the programming that is Alpha.

Yeah. In this setting, I mean, now to take the programming element and then go to the individualized piece of it for each person, what tends to happen– and this is a competitive format. Regardless if we want to accept it or not, it is, It’s actually in our brand promise. It is competitive, competitive with self is what we want to focus on. And, yes, we do competitions as well and go out there and test our strength and our conditioning, but the reality is, understanding the race that you’re in is what we need to focus on.

And what tends to happen a lot of times, and this is just human nature I feel like, oh, Jamie’s going faster than me, I’m going to pick up my speed. Or Konnor’s lifting this much weight, oh, I want to be the Alpha in this class and lift more than him or her. So it’s the same concept as, now that we’re aware of the programming that Konnor just broke down, understand the race that you’re running, and now we have to, as far as coaches, make sure that we’re catering to what it is that you’re there for.

So teeing this up for you Konnor, when we’re talking about the Alpha programming and we see this competitive element come out, whether it is in a Metcon, or if it is in a Lyft, what would you say to not only the athletes but the coaches out there as far as making sure that we stick to the brand promise to ensure that we’re doing right by the member? Because if it’s up to the member, they’re going to go to competitive mode and try to lift the gym, right? Or go as fast as possible regardless of what the energy system focus is. So what would you say there?

Yeah. I think you spoke to it right there at the end. It’s the energy system and then ultimately you boil that back down to the intended stimulus of whatever the workout is in front of them. If it calls for a particular percentage, strive to be at that particular percentage. Plus or minus within a certain degree because I get it like you’re saying, we would be naive to expect absolute following along to every specific guideline that’s ever dictated. In some days, you’re going to have good days and ride the high, I don’t want to stop you there either, right?

So I think that’s why the program is written the way that it’s written, and I know it’s easier said than done, whether because you’ve got your particular, I enjoy this kind of feeling, or, I get competitive with the person next to me, or I’m less comfortable or more comfortable with this, that, or the other thing, it’s hard. It’s really hard to follow the prescription, whether that’s strength or Metcon alike, but that’s why those things exist.

And we know, scientifically speaking, that to follow those particular– particularly around the energy system, to follow those particular designations is going to be more beneficial in the long run than an absolute spaz mode, leave you gasping for breath. I call it the bacon sizzle in my classes, when people get done with a workout, and they’re rolling around on their back like gasping for air. It’s like, get out of the pan. Like, not every day needs to be this world-ending, crippling workout. Don’t get me wrong, sometimes we’ve got to go there for the same physiological, and like you were talking about before, psychological response.

I actually, just the other day, had a conversation with my class and got onto my soapbox a little bit with– we had a workout. It was designed to be intense, but it was not designed to be the most intense thing that they’ve ever done in their lives. And I watched as I yelled 3, 2, 1, time and half of the room collapsed to the ground doing the bacon sizzle.

And I’m sitting there– standing there looking around and I had like the angel and the devil on my shoulders. The angel is like, go take care of them, Konnor. Be the coach, Konnor. Tend to your athletes, Konnor. And then the devil in me is like, you go tell them to stand up and to suck wind walking around the room. Like, you don’t need to be on the ground right now.

And so at risk of overdoing it, I told everyone exactly that at the post-class debrief. I was telling them, listen, there will be times when you actually need to go down to the ground. But if it’s not need, please don’t do that. Please don’t do that because on the one hand, you’re training yourself to succumb to circumstances that you don’t need to go and do all that with. I mean, we talked about this before we started recording. I have a musical theater background, I’m all for a flair of the dramatic from time to time.

Don’t get me wrong, but more often than not, that can’t be what we’re doing here. And within the programming, more often than not, that’s not what we’re trying to do here. And so by having the appropriate dose response and resisting, like, the question in the first place I promised I’ll come back around to it, the temptation for competition. And if you, like you said, David, can constantly compete with yourself against either a previous version of you, or in pursuit of your goals, or in ideally those things in tandem with the intended stimulus of the day, that’s a big win.

Or I would argue, maybe even best case scenario, if you have just resolved to the fact, like, no, I’m going to compete with my friend who comes in. Can it be you two competing for who most closely recreates the intended stimulus of the workout. Not who wins every workout by the number of pounds on the bar or the time that it took you to finish, but you get done and like, man, how’d that work out feel? Like, oh, I squarely feel like I was on zone three the entire time.

Or better yet, I’ve got the heart-rate data to prove it. And then the other– usually me– who loses in these situations is like, shoot, you’re right. I pushed the envelope too hard, but I’m going to get you next time. Friday zone two, you best believe I’m going to be in control. And we can take a still competitive, maybe not the same satisfactory kind of way, but you try to strike the balance along the way.

Well, I like what you’re talking here. I mean, you both have alluded to this, but like, the objective data that you can use based on your unique energy systems, and putting that to work for you in each individual and the coach working with you to get that. You mentioned the AMA earlier, that’s part of this.

For sure, yeah.

So related to this, thinking about the people and the bacon sizzle, I’ve had the experience when I start a new program where I kind of sometimes will go all in, right? And it’s tempting because for me, like, lifting heavy like this, it’s super empowering. I find a ton of confidence. I get excited about it. However, you have to temper that a little bit in order to not burn out. So let’s talk about that for a minute because it can be really– especially this, like, you can want to go and go every day, but it’s not necessarily the best way.

Sure. Yeah. To be honest, it’s one of the hardest things, especially with newer athletes to all things Alpha, it’s pretty rare that somebody comes in and takes a class and isn’t excited to come back, at least, in my experience and the experience that I’ve heard from folks. Like you’re saying, that can result in having been bitten by the bug, you go all in so soon which becomes wildly unsustainable in the long run, and then leads to the crash and burn, and hopefully, not so far that you end up farther back than when you started in the first place, right?

The classic analogy here is as it relates to dieting. It’s like, oh, I’m so excited. I got to lose 10 pounds to fit in this dress that I want to wear to a wedding. And then you crash lose this amount of weight, and you get to where you want to be for a fraction of a moment, but then down the road, you didn’t create the sustainable habits, you didn’t do anything that’s going to set you up for long-term success, and you up rebounding back the other direction. So long story short, it’s hard, you’re right. And it’s really tempting to fall into that trap, whether it be training, or dieting, or really anything else, right?

I’m a huge proponent of this idea that sustainability wins for better or for worse. So if in the early stages, ride the high. Don’t get me wrong. Lean hard into that, but recognize that your training and the training that we advocate for at Alpha is not a seven-day endeavor, nor is it a seven-week endeavor, nor, I would contend, is it a seven-year endeavor. We’re in this for as long as we can make the long haul out to be.

So bottle the enthusiasm and the motivation that you have in the early stages, but then find– a little bit back to that last question– the appropriate dose response, the appropriate kind of lean into that. Have fun and enjoy the great days and recognize that there will be bad ones too, and that can’t knock you totally off the course. Enjoy the PRs when they come, the personal records or the personal bests because they will come, and don’t be discouraged when you walk in and 60% feels like 160% because that too will come.

And so if you can go into it expecting those ebbs and flows and recognize that they are, I mean, just inherently and naturally part of the process, I think that can help kind of temper expectations for folks going right into it. And then also recognize that the responsibility is not entirely on you either.

That’s part of the beauty of coming into a group fitness format and having a coach there to help pull back the reins a little bit if and when you get into, go, go, go, I’m starting to fry up on the pan a little bit. Coach come over and say, hey, hey, hey, we had bacon for breakfast yesterday. Like, maybe just some scrambled eggs and toast sounds kind of nice today, huh? I don’t know, I’ve gone so far down the road with this analogy, but–

I love this analogy. I’m good with it. It is making me a little hungry, I’m not going to lie.

Yeah. No, I apologize for that. I’m a very food-centric guy myself, I can’t really help it.

We will never look at breakfast the same.


No. But let’s talk about an element that we kind of touched on already, Olympic lifting, it is a piece that definitely is something that we champion in this space. We talked about it earlier as far as the mechanics and the consistency within that before we add this intensity as they earn progression. This is something that I’m pretty sure you’re passionate about, what is it about the Olympic lifting that you get the most excited about when it comes to coaching?

Wow. Most excited about is getting to watch athletes progress ultimately into the fullest expression of the movement. Things that you– and I’m sure you’ve had this experience you David as somebody who’s coached, I don’t know how many, hundreds of thousands of Alpha classes I’m sure you have under your belt, you demonstrate a clean and jerk or you even say the word snatch, and you get half of the room looking at you like, what did he say? I don’t know what that is. Does anyone know? What does it mean to jerk? Right?

It’s like there’s so much kind of stigma around it, and people don’t either understand what it is that’s going on, or they choose to believe they understand what’s going on and they throw themselves to the wolves. And then like you’re saying, it’s more earned than that. There is a progression, both for efficiency, but then also for safety. And so you take someone who walks in and the first day they come in they’ve never touched a barbell and they say, there’s no way I can lift that.

And then over the course of however long the timeline becomes, to see them safely and confidently take that bar from a start position and receive it overhead, and then they look at you– usually while still holding the barbell– and do like a, you see it. Did you see what I did? Like, that’s a really, really, really magical moment. And it kind of comes back around to all of the pieces from question one is you better believe. I mean, we call the Olympic lifts the Olympic lifts unironically, right?

Like, I believe maybe one more round if not, they just had their cherry on top, they literally– and I tell my classes this also all the time, I like to call out the elephant in the room. They give people gold medals for being good at this. Like, these have been around a very long time and there are people that commit their lives to being good at them. So please, do not beat yourself up if you didn’t become absolutely perfect in 15 minutes on a Saturday morning.

And so the discipline, coming back around to question number one, this mental resilience piece, the discipline to be willing to just move the barbell 3 to 5 inches really, really, really well, over and over and over again. Even though it is the least sexy thing that you will ever do in the context of lifting and training– you don’t see people posting high-hang snatch pulls on their Instagram and getting hundreds and thousands of likes. Maybe a lift or lifting coaches, but that’s a very particular group. That’s not the big sexy stuff, but the discipline to do it transfers on.

And then the courage to having put in the work go try even when it feels heavy and scary, applies and transfers. And then the humility to recognize like, wow, there’s a lot of things going on in this movement pattern, what’s the one thing that I can work on right now and be willing to say, oh, I can work on XYZ. That transfers and applies, right?

So big light-bulb moments, really exciting to see people get it. And then along the journey too, there’s so many little micro wins that I think people take for granted, but from a coaching perspective, that’s what’s excites me. Because then you know you can get them to the next one, and to the next one, and the next one, and the next one.

Yeah. It is. Awesome.

So good. Well, we’re coming to the end. Anything else, Konnor, that you want to add about building mental resilience or just Alpha or fitness and health and wellness in general.

Man, if you’d let me, I’m sure we could be here for another four hours, but I know you’re not going to let me, so–

We will cut you off. Yes. We will.

You know what, that’s probably for the best. For all parties, that’s probably for the best. There’s another thing that I say to my classes as often as I can that I think is valuable for people to hear. And it’s, there’s a difference between challenging and impossible. And don’t let perceptions of impossible stop you from doing things that are challenging, and don’t let the idea and the intimidation of doing things that are challenging stop you from doing things that you are capable of.

And if you’re willing to just follow the process through discipline, through courage, through fortitude, through resilience, through all of it, you are infinitely more capable than you think you are. And that applies not just to the hour that you’re inside of your Alpha class, but I would argue more importantly to the other 23 hours of your day as well.

Life 101 right there, I love it. Alright. So before we get to the mic drop moment, we do have a moment to give a little shout outs to some of our current Alpha coaches that are out there. So, Jamie, I know you’re going to kick us off.

And I’m going to hand it back to you, right?

Yes you will, yeah.

Alright. So we have Brian Fox, [INAUDIBLE] Zack Wilkinson, Orrie Markfeld, Angela Chandler, Charles Traps, Ashley Drazkowski.

Yep. And then I’m going to pick up the second half here, Brian McKinney, Sarah Winchester, Andrew [? Boulter, ?] Jamaal Sanderson, Alicia Perez, Benjamin Glassman, Terri Ellman, and Bryce Morris. Alpha coaches, shout out to you all. Keep doing the great work. Now it’s time for the mic drop moment where a lot of our listeners, they like a lot of the content, but they love the mic drop moment. So are you ready for this mic drop moment?

I’m as ready as I could hope to be.

Oh, his radio voice just–

I know. I had it sprinkled in there. I heard David do it.

  1. OK.

Alright. So if you only could have one lift that you could only do, one lift for the rest of your life, which one would it be and why? It’s the only one you can do. You can’t do any accessory work, just one lift.

Specifically within the context of strength training or just all– like, all the time?

Strength training.

Strength training.

Yeah, strength training.

I think I would pick the snatch.

Oh, man. I was about to write it down and show Jamie what you’re going to pick.

And what did you–

It was going to be back squat.


Like, we referenced it, I was like, it’s got to be back squat.

I know. I tactfully led you astray over the course of the conversation.

What’s the why behind the snatch? Let me hear it.

So physiologically speaking, you are going to recruit just about every single muscle in your body over the course of the snatch. And for context, I’m talking full snatch or squat snatch is maybe the language that people otherwise refer to it as. Barbell that starts from the floor is received below parallel in an overhead position and then stood up to finish out the repetition. So you’re going to get immense bang for your buck physiologically, and you can look like whatever you want to look like with a snatch. Of that, I am very confident.

And then I would be remiss if I didn’t tie it back around in some way, shape, or form psychologically. There are few things more humbling and down the road encouraging than a snatch. It’s the most technical lift, I think, ever, at least, that I am aware of. And so there’s always going to be something you can work on.

There’s always going to be something that you then get to improve. There’s always going to be something that you can be excited about going and quote unquote, “working on this weakness.” And to me, that’s something that I’m going to be mentally and physically stimulated any and every time I go and get to train.

Well, you threw me for a loop, snatch, it is the most technical for sure. So I agree.

Oh, that’s a good line.

So good stuff. Snatch, ladies and gentlemen.

Alright. Well, Konnor, thank you so much for coming on and spending time with us and talking all things Alpha, and mental resilience, and confidence building, all these pieces. So important in any program that you’re working in, and we love hearing more about that. So we’re going to be linking it to more information and articles about Alpha and all of these different pieces on our show notes. And then, Konnor, people can find you on Instagram at konnor.fleming with a K.

With a K. That’s exactly right. You got it.

Anywhere else they can find you? Is that the main place?

That’s the main spot. I would give out my cell phone, but that’s probably a slippery slope. So we’ll go with Instagram for now and then one thing at a time, one thing at a time

We might just slip, like, your email address in the show notes. Just kidding, just kidding. We’re not going to do that.

Sure. Sure, sure, sure, my social is– no, enough of that.

We’re just kidding. Alright. Thank you, Konnor.

Thank you both so much.

Appreciate you, Konnor.


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