Embracing Intuitive Training

< Full Episode

Transcript: Embracing Intuitive Training

Season 7, Episode 18  | December 5, 2023

Jamie Martin:
Welcome to Life Time Talks, the podcast that’s aimed at helping you achieve your health, fitness, and life goals. I’m Jamie Martin, editor-in-chief of Experience Life, Life Time’s whole-life health and fitness magazine.

David Freeman:
And I’m David Freeman, director of Alpha, one of Life Time’s signature group-training programs. We’re all in different places along our health and fitness journey, but no matter what we’re working toward, there are some essential things we can do to keep moving in the direction of a healthy, purpose-driven life.

Jamie Martin:
In each episode, we break down various elements of healthy living, including fitness and nutrition, mindset and community, and health issues. We’ll also share real, inspiring stories of transformation.

David Freeman:
And we’ll be talking to experts from Life Time and beyond who will share their insights and knowledge so you have the tools and information you need to take charge of your next steps. Here we go.
Jamie Martin:
Hey, everyone, welcome to Life Time Talks. I’m Jamie Martin.

David Freeman:
And I’m David Freeman.

Jamie Martin:
And in this episode we are talking with ultrarunner Courtney Dauwalter and we are going to be focusing a lot on intuitive training, mindset and how we can kind of challenge ourselves through the pain cave, which we’re going to get into a little bit more. But Courtney is an ultrarunner based out of Leadville, Colorado, and through races and mountain adventures, that often exceed 100 miles, she is in a constant pursuit of what our bodies and brains are capable of if we go all-in and chase after crazy goals. And you’ve recently, Courtney, set some pretty amazing records, which we’re going to get into, but first and foremost thanks for coming on with us on Life Time Talks.

Courtney Dauwalter:
Thank you. It’s great to chat with you guys today.

Jamie Martin:
How are you doing like in this moment this week with everything going on in your world?

Courtney Dauwalter:
I’m doing great. I’m just back from a little jog this morning and eyeing the mountains for this afternoon.

Jamie Martin:
Awesome. Okay, what does a little jog mean for Courtney Dauwalter?

Courtney Dauwalter:
It varies a lot, but this morning I just had time for a 40 minute jog around the neighborhood to get my blood going and greet the day, basically.

Jamie Martin:
I love that. I love that. Well, let’s get into it right away, because I know we want to just introduce our listeners to you, who is Courtney Dauwalter and how did you get into ultrarunning? Like, what were some of those experiences that ultimately led you here?

Courtney Dauwalter:
I grew up playing tons of sports, but fell in love with running really early on. So, I remember in seventh grade just like feeling so much love for how running made my body and brain feel, but also for pushing really hard in races and for getting to put in exactly as much effort as I wanted to get towards those finish lines. And so, after college I tried a few road marathons, because I was curious if I could make it 26.2 miles, and when I did, I survived them, I stumbled upon the ultrarunning world because I was just wondering what else was out there that sounded too hard that I could try.

David Freeman:
Well, let’s talk about hard, right. Let’s talk about the mindset, the mind and body connection. We need to let the audience know that you set two back-to-back records, right. You set a new course record in, the word you just used hard, Hardrock 100 and then three weeks after winning that you set another new course record at the Western States making you the first athlete in history to set course records in Hardrock and Western States in the same year. So, tell us a little bit about those memorable moments and how that came about.

Courtney Dauwalter:
I feel really lucky to be doing this sport right now and to be asking my body and my brain to be putting in these big efforts for me, and it following through and letting me do that. So, this summer I set up this challenge of running these two really iconic 100-mile races only three weeks apart, just to see how it would go, and I finished both of them. I got to share both of them with family and friends, had so many moments along the way with, like, huge views and moments with my crew at aid stations and really, really tough moments just trying to continue pushing through. And for me that was what it was all about is like I want to do this challenge to see if I can and because I want to collect these memories to take with me through the rest of my life.

David Freeman:
I’ve just, I’ve got to stay right there, though, because they’re three weeks apart, 100 mile races, like walk us through the recovery process within three weeks. Like, that’s what I’m trying to like wrap my head around right now. Can you walk us through that?

Courtney Dauwalter:
Absolutely. I had no idea what I was doing going into this challenge. I’ve never done two 100-mile races three weeks apart and the way I was approaching the races was I wanted to leave everything I had on each of the courses. So, I raced that first one like it was my only race of the summer, left it all on the course and then tried to do the same at the second one. So, in the recovery it was really a lot of, like, learning as I went and just trying to tune in to my body and my brain and my emotions, and take each day as it was.

So, it was a lot of resting and sleeping and eating, but it was also a lot of, you know, walking or biking or just trying to get the blood flowing in some easier ways than running so that I could show up ready to go for the second one. I was probably more aware of my brain than my body and trying to recharge my brain to be willing to push again in that second race.

Jamie Martin:
Right. I listened to you on another podcast, I think it was an interview that was done the day after the race, and they, it was the Hardrock race I believe, and you had mentioned that, that was kind of a hard race the whole way through. Like, sometimes races like certain portions of it feel a little bit easier at the start or at different points, but you had mentioned, like, that was hard from almost mile one, you said. So, how do you, when you start to feel that, get on the course, get training, realizing even those early, early miles are hard, how do you move through that, at least initially, to know like I’ve got 99 more of these to go? What is that like when it feels that hard from the start?

Courtney Dauwalter:
Yeah, not one of the miles came for free in the Hardrock 100, the second race. None of them felt that, like, flow of you know when miles pass by quickly, every single one was noticing every step and every minute of it, but when that happened right away at the start of the race, I just decided to settle into it and to be okay with it. Like, this is the situation we have, we are finishing this race because I really wanted to experience this double, the challenge that I had set out to do, and I held onto belief that it was always possible that it was going to get better. I think you have to believe that even when you’re, you know, slogging along in the moments that don’t make you want to believe it will ever get better. I think you’ve got to believe that there’s something different if you just keep trudging forward.

David Freeman:
So, I mean, the whole focus of today’s episode is intuitive training and when you break that down by definition you can go so many different ways with it. So, when you walk through intuitive training, and I’ve already heard as far as like how you connect with your mind and then the body kind of follows, and I preach that, right. The way you think dictates the way you act, which usually yields the results that you get. So, can you walk us through some of your intuitive training techniques? And I know it’s a mastery behind it and it came from time and things change, it’s an ever flow type thin, but if you can kind of just give us a little glimpse of what that looks like for you.

Courtney Dauwalter:
Intuitive training for me is, the way that I prefer to train and live right now. I have been learning over the years to trust myself, and the signals that my body is giving me and my ability to act on those signals, but it didn’t like happen overnight. It’s for sure been a long process of figuring it out, but I just prefer to operate this way and it involves a lot of like checking in with myself every single day, all of my systems. You know running is a physical act, but I’m checking in with my head every single day, I’m checking in with my emotions every single day and trying to then gauge how far down I can push the gas pedal in training or if I need to pump the brakes and take care of some aspect of myself instead. So, I think it’s pretty cool what our bodies and brains can tell us if we tune into them and that’s like the puzzle that I’ve enjoyed playing with, with this ultrarunning stuff.

Jamie Martin:
Has there ever been a time, or was there a time when you realized that was the way that you needed to train? Or an aha moment like I need to do this differently than what I’ve done in the past? I mean, obviously we hear all the time about training programs and they really are important for so, so many of us, but was there ever a moment when you had that aha, like, there might be another way to approach this.

Courtney Dauwalter:
I think it was probably a couple of things that led to this approach for me. One is that I grew up with really, really fantastic coaches so I have the understanding of like how to train for a running race, how to prepare my body, the mental side of racing. I have that as like a basis because I grew up, you know, following their structured training that we did every single day through middle school, high school and college. And then when I started running ultras it never crossed my mind to get a coach or do a plan because I was just wanting to have fun with it and explore if I could even do these races.

Can I finish a 50-mile race? Can I finish a 100-kilometer race? Like, it was just this fun game that I was playing. And as I started playing it, and the years were passing where I kept wondering if I could do it, I was just finding myself naturally like tinkering with the training, and tuning more into my body, and listening to those signals more and all of it kind of unfolded as I got into the sport, I guess.

David Freeman:
Yeah, I want to speak to that, I mean, the power of coaching, and obviously having a strong foundation yielded a lot of great things in the long run. So, when you go back to that nostalgic vibe of having those great moments with the coach and them tapping in and seeing things that you probably aren’t aware of, and then now you take that some years forward and are able to apply that when you’re out there on your runs, getting in those moments of when you’re facing adversity or the thing that didn’t go the way that it was supposed to. So, tap into the power of coaching and how that has helped you in these races as well.

Courtney Dauwalter:
Oh, it’s amazing. I think coaches are so fantastic, and great coaches are you know mind-blowingly impactful, and I was lucky enough to have those growing up. And I think one of the coolest things that I learned from all of my coaches is that, you know, you work really, really hard for a goal and you are like putting everything you have behind this training and peaking for this race, but while you’re doing that you can absolutely be having fun, and that those things are not separate. We had so much fun on all of my teams training for these races and we were working really, really hard for it. And I think that having that be established so early on was huge in just how I approach sport and think about goals and stuff.

It’s like this is going to be hard, we’re going to buckle down and go after it, but also like let’s make sure to have a blast while we’re doing it because why not? We get this, you know, one life so let’s fill it with everything we love all of the time. One of my coaches also was really impactful in that he was adamant about the fact that there is always one more gear. Every time we thought we were at our limit, he would reassure us that we can turn that dial one more notch. We always have a little bit more to give, and it instilled the whole mental side of endurance sports for me in like how powerful our brains can be.

Jamie Martin:
So, much of what you’re saying and that is resonating with me right now. I’m training for a race right now, and it’s a short race and I haven’t done one in a really long time. But I’m for the first time in my training kind of following a guided program where it’s like the coach is in my ear. And a theme in every run I’ve done so far has been this can be fun and here’s how we’re going to, like, make this a more enjoyable experience. And I will honestly say, like, running for me hasn’t been enjoyable for many years because I didn’t have that mentality. But to have that shift happen and see like, oh, this can be fun and this is what it can feel like. And then know how to adjust within that has been really game-changing for me.

You know I’m 40 years old, I’ve been doing runs on and off since my mid-teens, and it like took me a long time to get here, but I feel like that’s often what happens for people, especially with running. Like, we go out and we think we have to go hard and so then it’s not enjoyable. So, for you to learn that early on feels really important and like a great learning curve from the start.

Courtney Dauwalter:
Yeah, I feel really lucky for the coaches I had early on.

Jamie Martin:
Yeah, that’s amazing.

David Freeman:
I want to kind of go into the mindset now translating how to comprehend the training program and how we’re fueling our bodies. So, the thing that stood out to me is you fuel your body on some candy and some nachos, all right, so what don’t you eat? I want to understand what don’t you eat. And then do you have any, I don’t want to call them restrictions, but maybe this is probably not the best fuel source for this race. So, kind of walk us through because you’re a record holder in multiple races, you do this out of joy and having fun, but at the same time you’ve got to make sure you’re properly fueled for these races, because these are some long races. So, can you walk us a little bit through how you fuel your body?

Courtney Dauwalter:
In life, normal life, I do not restrict or cut out or reduce any good groups. I want to eat what sounds delicious, I want to drink what sounds tasty and I want to live life. So, for me part of living life is just enjoying foods and drinks and not worrying about it. And that’s just like a personal choice, for sure, but it also adds a lot of joy to my life, and I think if you’re happy you do better at the things you’re trying to do. So, having as much of that joy in my life is important. I would say one of the things I make sure of is that I just am eating enough. I think having fuel in the tank is hugely important and so it’s eating often, and eating quantities and making sure that the gas tank is full.

As far as like in races or in training it’s been a long process for me of dialing in what my stomach can handle during these efforts, and how I like to keep that fuel tank full when I’m running. Right now it’s mostly liquid nutrition, so I do a lot of Tailwind in my hydration bottles, and then I’ll do, like, classic chews, and waffles and gels, stuff like that. If the races get really long, which are some of the races I prefer, then I’ll mix in a bunch of real food as well. It’s just too long to operate on gels and liquids, so it could be anything from French fries to pancakes to cheeseburgers and leftover pizza. All of that is fair game then.

Jamie Martin:
So, is that just like waiting for you at the aid station? You’re like, okay, it’s time to refuel here.

Courtney Dauwalter:
Yeah, like, load it up let’s go.

Jamie Martin:
Okay. So, you said, what’s a really long race? I mean, a hundred miles for a lot that’s a really long race, you’ve done longer races, so what is really long in your view and in your world?

Courtney Dauwalter:
Over, I would say over a day. So, if it starts getting into like 30 plus hours of running then I’ll incorporate more real foods. If it’s 24 hours and less I can stick with kind of the classic running nutrition.

Jamie Martin:
Yeah. And that is something I think is important because a lot of people, well, runners will deal with like digestive issues when running. And I know at Hardrock, was it Hardrock 2021, around mile 62 that you had to kind of step away from that race due to that. So, like, obviously there’s learning in every race we do, so it’s constantly adjusting, I’m assuming, right?

Courtney Dauwalter:
Yeah, constantly adjusting. And that’s one of the draws for me of this sport is that it is this puzzle and I get to figure out all of the different pieces. One of those is race nutrition and sometimes I’ll think I have a piece dialed and it’s set and I don’t have to think about it anymore. And then it all gets flipped on its head, and I get to revisit it and I have this opportunity to play with that piece again.

David Freeman:
All right, this topic let’s talk about the pain cave, all right. So, I love this and I usually say something when I’m coaching to my athletes going to that dark place. And it does not mean a negative connotation by any means. What it is saying is you’ve got to go to that place, kind of like that gear, that unknown gear that a lot of people possess, and essentially once you go to that dark place guess what? You’ll soon see that light. So, it’s just you’ve got to go to that dark place to see that light. So, I want to understand, and our audience do as well I’m sure, the pain cave. Can you describe what that is and how you came about that whole metaphor in itself?

Courtney Dauwalter:
I’ve heard lots of terms to describe the same idea, but the dark place is a great one or the hurt locker, the struggle bus. The pain cave was the one that I latched onto, I think because I’m very visual and I could envision that in this cave in my brain that I was working on. So, for me the pain cave is the place I go to in my head when it physically feels like I can’t take another step forward. There’s no way I can keep pushing this hard. I switch over to my brain because our brains are so, so powerful and if we can stay strong in our heads then our body will follow with us.

And my image is that I put on a hard hat and I grab a chisel and I go into this cave that I’ve been carving away at now for years making it bigger and I just start chiseling away at it. And it’s helping me feel productive in the hard moments where it’s a celebration of this is where the work gets done, and this is how I get better for the next time is by spending time in this cave right now chiseling away at making it bigger.

Jamie Martin:
It’s a space of self-discovery really, right? I mean, when you think about even just the idea of chiseling, like, you never know what you’re going to uncover, you know, and what comes out of that. I love that.

Courtney Dauwalter:
Yeah, absolutely. And initially the pain cave for me was a place I tried to avoid. Like, in my head I was getting better at ultrarunning by pushing the pain cave away as far as possible and if I arrived at it to just survive my time there. But in the past couple of years I’ve flipped the story for myself to be where the pain cave was where I actually wanted to be during a race. Because that’s where I was growing my capacity for that mental side of ultrarunning, so that the next time I visit it it’s even bigger and more able to endure.

David Freeman:
Now, Court, so now take that, because we’re speaking sport-specific or race-specific, how do you now apply what you learn in that pain cave to the everyday life outside of the sport? How has that helped you?

Courtney Dauwalter:
I would say that I haven’t mastered it in all aspects of my life outside of sport. Like, for example, sitting in traffic I’m definitely feeling pain cave-ish, but not as productive. But I do think it can teach us a lot in general and be applied to everything in our lives about, you know, persistence and sticking with it in those really hard moments. And our mindset and what we tell ourselves is important, so in those hard moments if we can stay present, accept that it’s difficult, but tell ourselves something positive, we can you know keep on pushing forward through whatever the thing is.

Jamie Martin:
When you think about that persistence and pushing through, when you finish a race, like some of the races you’ve just done, is there a mindset like, oh, I want to persist and do this again? I want to, I know what’s possible, I’m going to do this more or like what’s your mindset when you finish a race about what’s next and like persisting and doing it again?

Courtney Dauwalter:
It is, for sure, some moments of celebrating and just being there and enjoying what just happened. But really quickly we transitioned, my husband and I transitioned to eyes forward and figuring out what did we just learn from this experience, whether it went well or not, and what can we then apply to the next time we try this? This sport for me is like all about trial and error, and testing myself, and like being curious about what’s possible with our bodies and our brains. And that’s what has me signing up for these over and over is just, like, finding that out for myself and getting to run this experiment on myself of like, yeah, when all of the systems are connected how hard can we push, how far can we go, what does that actually look like?

Jamie Martin:
Well, you mentioned your husband, and I know for your support system, for instance, I mean he I know has been a pacer for you at different points in different races. What does your support system look like, you know, beyond him? And like through a race or in day-to-day life too because this takes a lot of time. Training is a commitment and doing this and what does that support look like for you?

Courtney Dauwalter:
My husband’s a huge part of it. We’re a team. It’s my feet and my legs that are running these races, but he’s a huge part of getting to those finish lines as well, and the finish lines are both of ours, for sure. Otherwise, it’s you know family and friends supporting these ideas, supporting me in my training, coming to races and supporting me that way and different brands that do the same. Otherwise, outside of that I don’t have like a team of people working on my body or helping me with training or anything like that.

David Freeman:
Well, I’ll throw this at you. I mean, let’s go ahead and give some props and praise. So, Rich Roll says world’ best female ultrarunner, the best period. Humble master of mental grit and boundary-busting with physical prowess. So, when we ask a question that everybody probably asks you, as far as what’s next, because when you break down all the things that you’ve already done, right, you crushed the ultramarathon world, right, you beat men, right, and you have such big goals. Like, what is next for Courtney?

Courtney Dauwalter:
To keep having as much fun as possible while pushing myself to see what’s possible. Yeah, while my body and brain are letting me do this type of exploring I want to do it full on and enjoy all of the moments that I can along the way.

Jamie Martin:
What’s the message that you would offer to, you know a lot of runners aren’t going to do an ultra-run or an ultra-race, but just getting out the door and doing this and seeing your potential. Like, what message do you have just for maybe the every day runner who is trying to get a few miles in or maybe, you know, 10 to 15 miles a week? What would you tell those people or what’s your advice to them for staying with it and staying the course?

Courtney Dauwalter:
My advice is patience and consistency. Just keep stacking those tiny blocks on top of each other and sure enough eventually you’re going to have this really big tower that you built yourself with your feet and your dedication, and to not forget that its fun and to enjoy it. It can feel hard and be fun at the same time and it’s easy to lose sight of that when we’re getting going with it. Not everyone has to try an ultra, for sure, but I do think they’re really special and teach us a lot, so it could be a cool goal for some people.

Jamie Martin:
It’s funny I was just editing an article, we have a colleague at Life Time who is going to be doing the Leadville 100 here in a couple of weeks and it’s her first hundred mile race. And I was reading her piece and just thinking like, wow, like the persistence, the stamina, the commitment, the mental hurdles that she’s overcome. And it’s just always such an amazing thing to watch people push themselves to that and also see what they discover. So, it’s amazing that we can, we have kind of a line of sight to that at Life Time because of our athletics. I know you’re in Leadville where a lot of those races happen. Will you go? Will you attend Leadville like and see? I know its part of the whole community when these races come to town.

Courtney Dauwalter:
It is part of the whole community. Everyone’s out cheering on-course, or helping fill waters or picking up trash. It’s super cool how everyone unites for these big events. So, yeah, hopefully I’ll have a front row seat to the action and I wish her the best of luck. That’s super cool.

Jamie Martin:
Yeah, it’s going to be really fun to watch her. I wanted to ask one quick thing. I mean, obviously we’re talking Courtney ultrarunner here, but what about outside of running, like other passions, other things that you’re committed to in your world?

Courtney Dauwalter:
Anything outside, anything moving is how we spend our time. Otherwise, family, and friends and making memories with the people that we love is important to me.

David Freeman:
I want to throw another at you. I get the blessing to be able to go around the country to pour into a lot of coaches and one of the things I hyperfocus on and Jamie already said earlier, is around mindset. And one part of this conversation that I have with them is adversity and poise in the face of adversity. So, not knowing the detail of what Jamie was talking about at mile 62, right, that you ended up facing adversity. Let’s just take that in the sense of a lot of the other races that you might have gone through and when something comes up that was unexpected that does not go in your favor, I want our listeners to hear how you take on adversity and that approach.

Because right now I hear all the things that you’re saying, you know, have fun, enjoy the process, love what you’re doing one hundred percent, but I mean then you go back to the reality of what you feel in traffic might be what people feel in their races, right? So, can you walk us through how you deal with adversity and how those reps over the years allowed you to be able to arrive when you do face adversity?

Courtney Dauwalter:
Absolutely. So, when those moments happen, which they happen all of the time, I will repeat simple but positive mantras to myself over and over in my brain. So, maybe something like this is fine, everything is fine, and I’ll just repeat that over and over. While I’m doing that it feels like it’s productive because it takes up space in my brain so I can’t start getting into a negative whirlpool of thoughts. And it calms down all of my systems where I can actually think with the other side of my brain like what experiences have I had before that are similar to this? Go through the filing cabinet in my brain, have I any ideas on what has worked before that I could try right now, and I just start trying things then.

And problem solving in anything, but for sure in ultrarunning, often you don’t nail the first solution right away. So, it’s like trying something, and being willing to pivot again and try another solution, and being willing to pivot again and try something different until you find what sticks and what helps. But while I’m doing that the whole time it’s just this simple, positive mantra over and over like a broken record to just keep the mind space in a good spot.

Jamie Martin:
Well, and what it sounds like is some much of what it comes to when you’re running, I mean, it’s as much mental as it is physical, in many cases. I mean, yeah, you see the physical endurance, but what’s going on up here is just as, probably if not more, important than what’s happening with your body.

Courtney Dauwalter:
Definitely. And that has just been our, like, every time I do a race I’m reminded of that again in a really huge way. Or out training I’m reminded of it all of the time that it’s a physical act, running is a physical motion, but our brains are a huge part of it.

Jamie Martin:
Yeah. And that really brings you back, us back to the idea of intuitive training, right. It’s listening to yourself. It’s tuning in and self-awareness in a way that so often it can get, it can be easy in the space of health, and fitness and wellness to really focus on the external and what’s happening outside. But when we tap into that intrinsic and what’s really happening that’s where kind of the real change happens, in many cases, and the real, we discover and learn about ourselves. So, I mean, I just think when we can, in many cases it’s both and right. We need both but how do we really tap into that mental side to move us forward. David has his saying that he always says it’s mind right, body right, you know, and that is something we think about a lot here. So, David, anything you would want to add?

David Freeman:
No, I mean, I’ve got a great mic drop moment that I’m excited to share with Court, but I want to make sure that, Court is there any key takeaways or things that we haven’t mentioned that you’d like to leave our audience with before that mic drop moment?

Courtney Dauwalter:
I think we’ve covered so much of it, I think believing in ourselves and raising the bar for ourselves is, it’s possible for all us. We can do hard things, we can do more than we think, we just have to go for it and try.

Jamie Martin:
Love that.

David Freeman:
All right. Jamie you ready for me to do the mic drop?

Jamie Martin:
I’m ready when you are.

David Freeman:
All right, Court, here we go. I’m going to throw at statement at you, and I want to know the first thing that comes to mind and what it means to you, okay?

Courtney Dauwalter:
Oh, my gosh. Okay, I’m nervous.

David Freeman:
Oh, don’t be, don’t be. All right.

Jamie Martin:
These are fun.

David Freeman:
Yeah, they’re great with the word great coming right at you here. The greater the fear the greater the impact. What’s that mean to you?

Courtney Dauwalter:
I’m fully into it. I think if a goal sounds crazy and scary and makes us question if it’s possible, we should absolutely go after it because, yeah, we’ll find out about ourselves whether we get the goal, the thing or not, is going to be really special.

David Freeman:
You got it. I love it.

Jamie Martin:
Well, Courtney, thank you for taking the time to join us to talk about this. We’re really excited for our listeners to tune in and hopefully feel inspired to, you know, push themselves to that degree to understand what their personal potential is and be willing to push towards that. But if people want to follow you they can follow you on Instagram @courtneydauwalter and at your website courtneydauwalter.com. Anywhere else you would want to point people? I know you have great inspirational content. I saw you have some tee shirts available right now, which is really fun.

Courtney Dauwalter:
Yeah, no, that’d be perfect. I’d love to connect with people. Thank you guys so much for chatting today.

Jamie Martin:
Oh, thanks for coming on.

David Freeman:
Thanks for joining us for this episode. As always, we’d love to hear your thoughts on our conversation today, and how you approach this aspect of healthy living in your own life.

Jamie Martin:
And if you have topics for future episodes, you can share those with us, too. Email us at LTTalks@lifetime.life, or reach out to us on Instagram @lifetime.life, @jamiemartinel, and @freezy30, and use the hashtag #lifetimetalks. You can also learn more about the podcast at Experiencelife.lifetime.life/podcasts.

David Freeman:
And if you’re enjoying Life Time Talks, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you like what you’re hearing, we invite you to rate and review the podcast and share it on your social channels, too.

Jamie Martin:
Thanks for listening. We’ll talk to you next time on Life Time Talks.

Life Time Talks is a production of Life Time Healthy Way of Life. It is produced by Molly Kopischke and Sara Ellingsworth, with audio engineering by Peter Perkins, video production and editing by Kevin Dixon, sound and video consulting by Coy Larson, and support from George Norman and the rest of the team at Life Time Motion.

David Freeman:
A big thank you to everyone who helps create each episode and provides feedback.