The 7 Rules of Self-Reliance

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Transcript: The 7 Rules of Self-Reliance

Season 10, Episode 4  | February 25, 2025

Welcome back. Another episode of Life Time Talks. I’m David Freeman.

And I’m Jamie Martin.

And we have an amazing episode today that’s going to be talking about the seven rules of self-reliance. When you think of how rapidly changing our world is when it comes to communication, when you think of self and how much we have already invested in self, our experiences have shaped us over the years. But sometimes, we tend not to take that shot. In today’s episode, we’re going to talk about investing in self, how to make the most out of self, and relying on self to make it happen. So we have a special guest, Jamie, go ahead and introduce her.

Yes, I’m so excited for Maha Abouelenein. Maha is a global communications expert with more than 30 years of experience working in strategic communications across tech, media, and government. She is the founder of Digital and Savvy. She is the bestselling author of the new book, 7 Rules of Self-Reliance How to Stay Low, Keep Moving, Invest in Yourself and Own Your Future. And she is the host of the Savvy Talk podcast.

She believes communication is the bridge to every opportunity. I love that. That is like a mantra almost. Like how do we talk and communicate better with one another? So Maha, thank you for joining us. We’re so happy to have you.

I’m so excited to be here. I’m a huge fan of the show. I’m an avid listener. So to be a guest here is wonderful. And just super pumped to chat with you guys today.

Awesome. We’re going to jump right in. We want to know more about you and how you got here. How did you decide to take this path to be leading people in global communications?

So I’m born and raised in Minnesota. I grew up in Mankato. My dad was a dean of the business school and educator. I lived in Mankato, home of the training camp for the Vikings. And it’s a small town, a college town that swells up during the school year. And after graduating from Mankato State, undergraduate and graduate degrees, I moved to the Twin Cities.

I worked for General Mills doing sports marketing, Wheaties, Betty Crocker, all the fun brands that you guys are aware of. And when I was 27 years old, my parents, who are both Egyptian, said, we’re moving back to Egypt. They had come here to go to school and ended up spending 30 odd years here in the US.
And I moved to Egypt at 27, didn’t speak the language, didn’t have any friends, didn’t have a network, really had to rely on myself to figure out how I was going to create a career for myself in what was pretty much for me, a foreign country. And my mom had multiple sclerosis. So I was caretaking for my mother at the time. And that was the reason why I moved back with my parents.

I ended up living overseas for 23 years between Egypt and Dubai, worked in communications, head of public policy and global communications for Google, launched Netflix in the Middle East, worked for the ruler of Dubai, ended up being a consultant for the US government, helping them tell stories in the Middle East, serving a few undersecretaries of state for public diplomacy and became really known as the Olivia Pope of the Middle East. If anyone had a crisis in comms, they would come to me. And then 2020 happened, and the pandemic hit.

And I religiously come to Minnesota every single summer. And the thought of me not being able to see my family was a non-negotiable for me. And after living overseas for 23 years, in 24 hours, I decided to move home because they said the airports were going to close. And I wouldn’t be able to leave the country.

So I left Dubai in 2020, and I moved back to Minnesota. And I’ve been here for four years. I rebuilt my business. I have a communications firm where I consult for individuals and companies on how to do good storytelling and communications. And fast forward to this book. It was a big goal of mine to write a book. And didn’t really know I was going to write a book about self-reliance.

But when I thought about everything I had done in my career, and I looked through line, the thing that was constant was how to rely on yourself. And this is not a book about what I did. It’s how I did it and how I do it. And I want to inspire people to invest in themselves and to believe in themselves and to trust themselves. Because all good things happen when they do.

I love that. I love that. And I want to lead with when we talk about the universal language, I always talk about how music and movement are like the universal languages. So when it comes to communication, I have a strong passion behind it. I go all the way back to college when I wanted to major in interpersonal communication. And I just knew I was going to be the best communicator.

And then the teacher had me go up in the front and have this — public speak. And then it was a reality check for me real quick. Almost like imposter syndrome when I’m in front of all my peers.

[INAUDIBLE]

But it also changed something within me on that day. And we’re going to probably unpack a lot of that. I’m going to come back full circle to this moment. So first things first, let’s go into your philosophy around communication. Why it’s so essential to have a strong communication, and as it relates to encouraging transparency and bringing the most out of yourself when communicating to somebody in front of you?
I think the biggest thing is stories are what connect us. Think about when you follow somebody on social media or you hear a story in the news, what makes you stop and think about it? Is it something that evoked emotion? Was it something that was funny? Communications will never go out of style. No matter how much AI takes over the world or infuses into every part of our lives, we’re still going to have to build relationships. We’re still going to have to communicate with each other — at work, socially, through your communities and your families.

And the book isn’t a communications book. It’s more about principles of what you can do to own your future. And I feel like it starts with the story you tell yourself first. The most important story is the story you tell yourself. What am I capable of? What do I care about? What are my values. And how can you lean into that? And I feel like as we start a new year, it’s a fresh new year. A lot of people think about resolutions and goals.

And I think about setting up systems because systems are what will sustain you. Systems are the things that you can continue to do that will build a habit or build sustainability for yourself. And it’s hard. We have a lot going on in our lives. We got family obligations. We got work obligations. We have stress. We have social media, where we’re comparing ourselves all the time, thinking we’re probably not doing enough, or other people are doing more. But I want you to just ignore all of that.

And the first rule of the book is stay low, keep moving. That you need to stay low, not low profile, but stay low because you could be up here distracted by everything happening in the world that you’re never going to focus on what you care about. So how can you tune out the noise, turn out the things that are distracting you, or the doubters telling you can’t do it, or the distractions from, let’s say, for example, comparison on social media. Stay low and stay focused on your goals, and you’ll achieve them.
And keep moving because you will have setbacks. You will have a bad day. You will have economic challenges. You will have things that happen. Life happens. It’s messy. So the first rule of being self-reliant, a little more self-reliant today than you were yesterday is like, how can you stay focused on what you care about? It’s like sitting in front of your email all day. If you’re just sitting inside, fielding emails coming into your inbox, those are other people’s priorities interrupting your day, not the things you actually want to get done.

So think about a small goal. If it’s learning how to cook. Is it learning how to play pickleball? Is it learning how to use AI? Whatever your goal is, if you’re constantly getting a bit pushed back because of distractions, it’s time to stay low and keep moving.

I love that. Because I do think that we are living in a world of distraction where it’s easy to get pulled in 100 different directions, or to somebody else’s priorities. I am 100% guilty of that. And I feel like there’s moments when I’m like, you have to come inward again and find you. Like what is calling to me, and what do I need to put my attention on? So I love that as a place to start.

I think a lot about how you spend your schedule and hacking your productivity. So I have something called no meeting Wednesdays. Where on Wednesdays, I don’t do calls. I don’t do meetings. I really use it a day to think, to plan, to energize, to give me that time to focus on what I care about knowing that I do need to meet people and have calls. But I know on Wednesday, I’m going to have some thinking time to do it.

So is it spending two hours on your schedule in a week where you’re going to get that focus time. Is it one hour a week? Start small. Build that habit. Build it into your calendar of I’m going to spend once a week just doing focused work to focus on something that I care about doing.

I would take it a step further. Just going back to — remember, I said I was in front of the class. And I mean, at an older age, I now can speak to this. It was the way you think dictates the way you act.

100%.

It usually yields the result that you get. That was one piece that I didn’t have equipped yet at a young age of 17, freshman in high — I’m sorry, college. Take the step further, you said SYSTEMS. And I love that. And I love acronyms. You know I love my acronyms.

Yes, David —

Save yourself time, energy, money, and stress when you apply the SYSTEMS.

Save yourself time, energy and money. Yeah, I got it.

Yeah, and stress. And when you apply it though. Because we always talk about how knowledge is power. But then, the reality is the application.

Is what we get stuck on.

You got to apply it. You got to apply it. We can read the book, but we still have to apply the tools to allow it to come to life.

One of the things I did in the book was make it really practical. So at the end of every chapter, there’s a cheat sheet. And then I give reflection exercises so people can put the rules to work.

There you go.

And that’s one of the feedback I’ve gotten from the book is like how practical it is, is how I can actually do these things and implement them into my life.

I love that. You mentioned rule number one already. Let’s jump right to rule number two then because we want to go through these — be a value creator. Tell us more about this.

So I think about how — when I look back at my career, what was the thing that stuck? Was thinking about — I consistently try to add value to other people. And by adding value to other people, I ultimately add value to myself. So I think about I’ll meet you. And I want to ask you a very simple question, how can I help? And by asking you that simple question, I can find out what do you care about? What are your problems, what are things you’re passionate about?

And then I’m going to try to pull one of those threads and say, you know what? Jamie really cares about this. If I see an article, I’m going to send it to her. If I can make an introduction, I’m going to make it for her. I’m going to try to anticipate needs. Or I’m going to try to solve a problem. Or I’m going to try to do something with good intention to bring value to you because I know it’s something you care about. And it’s not what I think it’s valuable. It’s what you think is valuable.

And imagine if I keep showing up in your life bringing value to you. Aren’t we going to create a good relationship?

100%.

Aren’t you going to want to do business with me? Aren’t you going to want to hire my company? Aren’t you going to want to recommend me to somebody else? That’s what I mean about creating value for other people. Find a way to create value for people you care about. Because when you do, you make a deposit in their trust bank. And when you make a deposit in someone’s trust bank, you build a relationship. And when you build a good relationship, you improve your reputation.

So I really feel that — I have a consulting firm, so I have clients. So I need to constantly think about how do I create value for them? Because they have choice. They can go talk to somebody else or hire somebody else. What’s my secret sauce? What’s the thing that I know I can create value for them?
It started with my parents. So my mom, I told you I had MS. My father also had ALS. I had two parents with neurological diseases. I got some pretty tough cards. It started at home. I said, what can I do to make their day better, one small thing I can do to make them happier or better or more comfortable? And then when I started creating value for my parents based on being their caretaker and them being so sick, I’m like, that felt good.

It felt good doing something nice that created value for them. I was wondering if I can take that at work. I wonder if I can create value for my team. I wonder if I can create value for my boss or my company. And it’s about maybe thinking strategically or trying to think about something they hadn’t thought about, or step up and do something they didn’t ask you to do. That’s value.

Well, value comes with experience, too. And I mean, if you’re just listening right now or watching, I feel the energy and I feel the confidence. And that had to come from reps. So I have to ask the question because everybody is going to be inspired and excited. But you probably have been told no a lot.
100%.

But let’s talk about resilience in that. And why no is sometimes — or I would say, a lot of times good because it allows you to know how to come back to how can I reposition that question? How can I create that value that you were just speaking to? So can you talk a little bit about resilience?

I mean, I failed quite a lot in my life. I’ve been fired from jobs quite a bit. And from failure come valuable lessons. And I think failure is not the opposite of success. It’s part of success. It’s how you get there. And I’m telling you that if you want to give value to other people, you must be valuable.

So you must know things. You must be able to execute. You must have that resilience. Like, OK, if you get you knock on three doors and two of them say no, are you going to have the guts and the gumption and the confidence to go back and knock on that third door or not? And it is trial and error. It is life.
You are going to have those. There’s plenty of times where I had setbacks or I’ve been told no. Or the value I was creating wasn’t enough. It was good, but it wasn’t valuable to them in their eyes. So you’re going to have to build that muscle. You’re going to have to learn how to create value for other people. But once you do, you become indispensable.

There is something in that, too, about you have to then be aware and know and trust your own value. So let’s talk about that for a second. Because if I don’t believe that I have value to offer, you’re holding yourself back.

Everybody does.

I know.

Everybody does. Everybody has unique talents. And nobody’s judging you as much as you’re judging yourself. In order —

Say that again. You got to hear this. Say that one again.

Nobody’s judging you as much as you are judging yourself. Because it’s true. Everybody has something. Everyone’s like, I don’t have a secret sauce or there’s nothing that I’m good at. That’s impossible. That’s impossible. Are you good with people? Then maybe that’s your secret sauce. Are you good at problem solving? That’s your secret sauce. Are you good with being a good listener? Because that’s so important. Listening is how you develop the strategy and the ideas and the insights.

There’s something. It’s just identifying it. And one of the things I do in the book to help people identify what their secret sauce is is ask those questions. What do people used to describe me? What are three words you would use to describe me? What are things that I enjoy doing that I find bring me joy? Those are the things that are your secret sauce.

Like I enjoy working on difficult problems and trying to crack them. I enjoy doing research. I enjoy getting out there and meeting people and networking. I mean, recently, I spoke at a big event. It’s a networking event with 10,000 people. And I asked everyone in the audience to raise their hand, how many people in the audience are good at networking or love networking? And literally, nobody raised their hands. And I’m like, this is a networking event.

Like, we’re here.

Yeah, because they really feel it’s intimidating to network, which we talk a lot about in the book. But I feel like, if you feel you’re hitting setbacks or you’re hitting that failure wall or you feel like you don’t have that secret sauce, take a step back. One of the things that I was told — I got asked to do a project, and I didn’t think I could do it.

One of my friends said to me, Maha, go back and read your resume. Sometimes, we forget of what we’ve done. You got an education. You had jobs. You have a career. You’ve done things. We just don’t take stock at it.

It’s such an important reminder to — it’s that pause and reflect. You know where you’ve been to then hopefully shape where you’re going. And I don’t know, we need to do more of that. Slow down.
I think sometimes, it gets confusing for individuals. They look at confidence and then cockiness, maybe. And I’m like, I don’t want to reflect on self. I don’t want to make it about self. But that’s the value.

That’s the value. Actually, when you see the name of the book, Self-reliance, people think, self is in it. It means selfish. It means I should rely on myself that I don’t need anybody else. If you read the book, this is the exact opposite of what the book is about. It’s about empowering yourself to be like, hey, I can do things. I can know things. And if you know the tools of self-reliance, it’ll change your mind about what it’s about.

Yep, I’ll reshape that. Let’s go back to those rules. Because I know the next one, you said, don’t be a waiter, rule number three.

This happened to me. So, I was sitting with friends, having a cup of tea. And I had a job. I was getting up, going to work, going to my friends, working out. I had my routine. I was living. There was nothing wrong with my life. I wasn’t unhappy in any way, shape, or form. And one of my friends said to me, you’re a waiter. And I said, what?

And he’s like, you’re waiting. You’re waiting for your boss to give you that project that’s going to make you a rock star. You’re waiting for someone to give you a promotion. You’re waiting because you think you deserve something and it’s going to come to you. You’re waiting until you meet Mr. Right. You’re waiting until you lose weight. You’re waiting until you get more money in the bank account.

And I was pissed off. I was upset. Sorry. I was really upset because he was right. I was waiting. I knew that I was capable of more. I knew that I had things I wanted to do. I was just hoping that because I deserved it, it was going to come to me. Or I was waiting for someone to recognize me. I’m like, well, don’t they know that I’m working really hard? I deserve this.

Are you waiting for permission from others? Are you waiting because you fear failure? Sometimes, I didn’t do things because I didn’t want people to judge me and say, who does she think she is? I feared failure. I feared judgment. I was waiting for permission. And I’m like, what do I need permission from other people for? It’s my life. Only I know how to drive it and live it and be a part of it.

And I feel like a lot of people are waiting. And I want to inspire you to go through this book, read the exercises to determine if you’re a waiter. Because I really feel that it’ll kickstart you into thinking about, gosh, I am waiting. What am I waiting for? This is the chapter that gets them. When people read the book, they’re like, oh, dang it. Dang it. I don’t want to wait.

This is where I’ve been stuck.

I’ve been stuck. Or like, you know there’s something you want to do. You’re just not doing it. Why aren’t you doing it?

The fear of the unknown. You got to be able to advocate for yourself.

I wrote that word down. Literally wrote the same word.

You have to advocate for yourself. And it’s so foreign in certain spaces. So now, if you’re the one who’s speaking up, it’s like, you’re the outlier.

But baby step it. That’s what I’m trying to say. Sometimes, I don’t want to do things because I don’t want to take that first step. The first step is the hardest. I’m like, OK, what am I waiting for? I’m waiting for these things.

What’s one thing I can tick off this, a small step that I can do that’s digestible, that’s not going to put me in a vulnerable position. Try to just take a step especially as we’re thinking about our lives and how busy we are and what we do. What’s one thing I can do? I’m not asking you to do 10 steps or four steps. I’m saying do one.

It’s similar with an exercise program. Like I want to run a marathon. You’re not to go out and run a marathon. You have to run that first two-mile run and build up. You have to build up —

You need to get the shoes. That’s the first step. You need to go for a walk. That’s the second step. You need to go for a longer walk. Then you need to start jogging. Like you just baby step it.

I would say transparency is key in this space. As far as when you’re taking these steps, transparency, making the awareness to the individual that you’re speaking to the desires that you want. You got to put it out there. Because honesty is different from transparency. See, honesty is I’m waiting for you to ask me the question. Then I can be real with you. I’ve been waiting for that for you to talk about the promotion.

Thank you.

Versus transparency — over the past year, these are the things that have been done. What value do you associate to that? Now, you’re transparent with it, but at the same time, you’re taking the step, and you’re advocating for yourself.

For yourself.

So I love that. Next rule, because we love where we’re going at with this. It’s got unlearn, relearn, and invest in yourself. Piggybacking off what we just said. So when you talk about individuals who can’t get through this, they can’t break through that barrier. We have a fixed mindset that’s setting them up. And then you obviously has a growth mindset. It was the opposite end of that spectrum.

100%.

So talk to us.

So what do you need to unlearn? What things have changed in time — because times are changing — that you need to rethink? Like what conversations am I having with myself based on maybe old ideals or things that are not true anymore? Like for example, careers are not linear. We don’t just do one thing.
You want to have different varieties and perspectives. Like having a side hustle is normal because you have other interests outside your work. Doesn’t mean you don’t love your day job. It means you have other interests, and you want to nurture and feed that cup. Relearning — what do you need to relearn? Because education doesn’t stop when you finish school. The market’s changing so much.

And then last but not least, which is on the cover of the book, invest in yourself. What can you do to invest in yourself? I’m not going to wait for my manager to say, here are some things I want you to learn. I have access to the internet. Podcasts are for free. YouTube videos are for free. Talking to somebody is for free. What are you doing to invest in yourself? I don’t want to be left behind because I don’t know things. And you know what? It’s never been easier. We’ve never lived in a greater time to learn. People’s morning hacks or morning routines or what to do in certain situations? We can learn and invest in yourself, and it’s so rewarding and it’s so fun.

Reading books. And I’m not saying go take formal education and take classes. Learning comes from everywhere. You can Google a word a day, and you’ve learned something. And you know what? It’s actually good for your brain. And if you walk and listen to a podcast, the amount of endorphins and well-being it does for your brain, it helps you retain that information.

So really think about that. How can I incorporate learning into my life? And it’s once a week. Is it once a month? If you walk away from nothing in this podcast, walk away from this. I want you to invest in yourself. You are the person who can drive your growth. And that’s why it’s in a book about self-reliance. I want to rely on myself, to invest in myself.

Pay to be in rooms. Pay to go to conferences. Pay to invest in learning things. Because when you do, you have not only well-being and you’ve helped your brain because learning is really good for you, you give yourself a competitive advantage either at work or with other people or building relationships because knowledge is power.

And that is why I feel like I’m so passionate about being a lifelong learner. I always want to know what’s happening. I’m curious about the world around me. And I feel like it’s really important to think about when you have a to do list of spending time with friends, or working out or socializing, where is learning on your priority list?

And to your point, it doesn’t have to be formal education.

No.

It doesn’t have to cost thousands of dollars. It really is.

Free.

And it’s at our fingertips most of the time now. It’s like, I can Google this and I learn something. And maybe it’s a hobby you want to learn. That all matters. It builds right over time.

It’s free.

Yes.

My point is, it’s free. Why wouldn’t you take advantage of it?

We just have to stop being distracted. Kind of stay low.

But just like, yeah, exactly. But like podcasts, I can learn — I listen to a lot of medical podcasts because I don’t like consuming that in books. But I want to learn what are the latest health hacks and medical things that are happening. I like listening to different stories. I want to learn about how a CEO built his business. Or I’m curious about cooking things or whatever it is that I’m passionate about. It doesn’t have to be related to your work.

Just training your brain to learn something is all you need to fight aging. They said seven minutes a day. If you read seven minutes a day, that can prevent Alzheimer’s. It seems like a simple thing. But reading is for your brain. What working out is for your body.

I like that.

Work that muscle.

Work it.

Seven minutes a day of reading.

And we got the time for it.

100%.

We got the time for it.

You got seven minutes.

All day. All day. So here we go. Check it out. Think of your reputation as currency. Let loose on us. Come on.

Yeah, I mean, think about it. We live in a cancel culture. Everyone has a reputation. What are you doing to build it? What are you doing to protect it? I want you to treat it like a currency. It’s valuable. What’s it’s worth? And how are you increasing it? So if you have a strong reputation, good things and opportunities will come to you. It’s about your relationships with your neighbors, with your family, at work. If you have a job, your personal brand — a lot of people hear the word personal brand.

They’re like, Maha, I’m not a social media influencer. That’s not what I’m trying to do. I want you to take away the term personal brand and replace it with the term reputation. And don’t you care about your reputation? What’s your reputation at work? Personal brand at work? You’re a team player. You’re a good listener. You’re resourceful. You’re a go-getter. You’re ambitious. You’re a leader. You’re a good listener.
And if you’re an entrepreneur, you need to think about your personal brand because that’s how you’re going to attract investors. That’s how you’re going to attract the right talent. That’s how you’re going to attract the right partners. It matters. And the more AI integrates into our life, the more personal brands are going to matter.

Tell us more about that. What role do you see AI playing in that?

100%. I mean, it plays a very big role. Because first of all, AI will eliminate a lot of jobs. And so a lot of people are going to be self-employed or self entrepreneurs. And we’ll have to know, how do I build a relationship? How do I build my reputation so people will work with me? People are going to be forced to be their own businesses and brands, whether they like it or not. And it’s easy to do. And it’s actually, economically, very powerful to do.

So I feel like that’s the first thing. The second thing is, when I think about your personal brand, your reputation, or how the market’s changing, think about relationships you have what are the reputations of the people that you interact with? And why do you gravitate towards certain people, is because they have strong personal brands, strong reputation. You want to be associated with them. You want to do business with them. You want to have them in your circle as a network.

If you build a strong reputation, you attract the right network, the right relationships, the right opportunities. And I teach in the book a playbook of how to build your personal brand, your reputation online and offline. Because what really matters is not what you do on social media. It’s how you treat people in real life — the barista, your colleagues, your friends, your neighbors. What’s your reputation? It matters.

Because we like to say — you spend time with the people that are the five people that are in your circle, the ones that influence you. Think about who you want to spend company and spend time with and be in company with. It matters.

A great mentor of mine told me, I want to say back in 2016, he was talking about everybody’s so focused on net worth. He said it’s the network that opens up the access. And from the access, the byproduct is net worth. So what that means is now, the company that you keep.

The perception, if you see me on the side of the Timberwolves sideline when they’re playing the game, the perception is, oh, man, he’s somebody just because I’m sitting on the sideline. But the reality is, I’m the same person. But the perception — and that’s what that access point that I’m talking about in these relationships to what you’re talking about in reputation and that currency piece, all of those things, it all intertwines.

The reason I use the word currency is I want people to know how valuable it is to them. And how much it can be a door opener and a currency with other people. And the other thing is, when you think about this, the network and the net worth, a lot of people don’t want to build their personal brands even if they’re not going to be posting on social media because they don’t have the right self-worth to build their net worth.
So they’re overthinking it. Or they don’t have the confidence. Or they think, oh, I’m not a personal brand. And you are. You really are. You really have something to offer in the world being friendly, being helpful. All the things that who you show up, how you show up in the world, that’s your reputation. And I feel like a lot of people put it off to the side.

Like I have one. I can’t control it. It’s what people perceive of me. And my point is, no, it’s not. It’s actually something that should be the first thing you think about every single day of how to build it, how to grow it. And when you do invest in yourself and you know things, and you can create value for other people, and you build your personal brand, and you build the right reputations, that’s the methodology of being self-reliant is you understand how important that is. And that driving what you care about.

That makes total sense. And it’s also just got my mind spinning about where I need to spend some time. Be a long-term player. I think this one’s really interesting because you talked a little bit about those small steps. But there’s something about that long term. So tell us about that.

I mean, I think we live in a world of instant gratification. We want to tap to pay and get out of the store. We want to download the whole series right now. We don’t want to wait. We don’t even want to wait three seconds for a video to load. They say if you don’t hook a customer person in three seconds, they move on. Our relationship with time has changed.

And I like to be a long-term player for everything I’ve done in my life. And I tell some really crazy and fun stories in the book. You need to be thinking long term. Make a deposit in somebody’s trust bank. And make multiple deposits in different people’s trust banks. Imagine you walking through life, David, in the next five to 10 years, making deposits in people’s trust banks. When you need something, you will make a withdrawal. And you’ll be able to make that withdrawal because you’ve spent time doing good deeds for other people, being good intentions.

This chapter, being a long-term player is all about how to build your own network. One of the reasons is in a book about self-reliance is I want you to rely on yourself to know how to build a relationship and how to nurture a relationship and build a network. How do you master the art of networking on LinkedIn? How do you master the art of networking on a Zoom or a Teams call?

There’s people — I work at a company. I want to network with them. How do I do that? I teach you how to do this in the book. How to build a relationship? How to nurture it? Your network is not there to serve you, to get you tickets to a Wolves game, or a job for your son. You need to learn about serving your network. Because when you do, you made a deposit in the trust bank. You’ve added value to them. They know more about your reputation. It all links together.

And I feel like having a very strong network and a group of relationships is something I want everyone to have in their hands. Those cards in their hands and relying on themselves to build their relationships. What if we have another pandemic? Am I going to call you Jamie, and say, hey, Jamie, those relationships you have? Can I use them? Why don’t I learn how to build my own relationships?
You have to start with you again. Back to you.

And I mean, a lot of the principles of this book is I want people to have all the cards in their hands. And those cards are skills, experience, knowledge, and relationships. Because if you have good relationships, you can rely on yourself when you need something. If you have good experience, you’ll be able to create value for other people. If you have skills because you’ve invested in yourself in learning, you’ll be able to leverage that.

And if you have knowledge — that’s again the lifelong learning — that’s something that’s going to help you keep going and rely on yourself. And I feel like one of the reasons I wrote this book was I wanted people to redefine what they thought about when they think about self-reliance. Now, it’s about skills, experience, knowledge, relationships. And that matters.

So if I’m hearing you right, the infinite game, and over time, making these small deposits. And then whenever you need to make a withdrawal, it’s there for you because you built these —
Goodwill.

—concrete, strong relationships.

100%.

I love that. I love that. So here we go. I love this next one. Rule number seven, live with no regrets.
I mean, it’s easy to say, very difficult to do. And this stems from my personal experience of my mother with MS and my father with ALS. What are the odds that I have two parents with neurological diseases that would need full-time care? I became a caretaker.

And for 22 years of my life, I was caretaking for my parents, not only feeding, bathing, clothing them, but making all their medical decisions and hoping I’m making the right medical decisions and educating myself about doing the right thing for them. And I could have been pretty down and out of myself, of my situation, of my life, of these are the cards that I got dealt.

And I was like, well, how can I turn this setback into what I want to call a comeback? And how can I turn my struggles into my strengths? And what can I learn from this process so I don’t regret having to be a caretaker for most of my life? It taught me about empathy. It taught me about patience. It gave me a lot of perspective.

If I’m having a bad day, all I had to do is look at them. They have feeding tubes and trachs. And it wasn’t a good situation that they — I could get out of bed and put my feet on the ground and get up. They didn’t have that simple luxury. And so I feel like I don’t want you to live with regrets. If something happened to you, it doesn’t define you.

And I want you to think about you don’t want to live your life thinking, I woulda, shoulda, coulda. We are only on this planet for so long. Have that perspective of is this really what I want to live my life doing? Is this really how I want to get mad about something? Or is this really worth the angst, it’s stress that’s causing me? Nine times out of 10, it’s probably not.

And to rely on yourself means you don’t regret things that happened to you. You accept them, and you let go of them so that you can achieve the things you care about and focus on what really matters. When I lived in Dubai, I had a great life. I lived in an amazing city. I had a great job. I was making good money. I had no reason to leave Dubai.

But when the pandemic hit and the thought of me not seeing my family again, it was a no-brainer. I was like, I’m on the next flight out. And I didn’t want to regret having to — what if I got stuck here? I didn’t want to have that regret. And I moved back. And I’m like, I don’t know how I’m going to start over again. I don’t have a company. I don’t have a network. I’ve been living overseas for 23 years.

Imagine you leaving somewhere and coming back. Everything’s changed in 23 years. So I’m like, OK, but I know I’m going to rely on myself. I have skills. I have experience. I know how to network. I have a good reputation. And I relied on myself to rebuild, and I did.

And if I can do it, so can you. Because I don’t have a bank account. I don’t have a family business. I rely on myself to achieve the things I want to get done. And I’m willing to put in the hard work and the willing to put in the effort. And if you’re willing to do that, you can do anything.

I love that. So we’ve been through your rules. We just heard from you about having that perspective, your ability to do whatever you set your mind to. When somebody finishes this book, what do you want them to walk away with? I mean, you’ve talked a little bit about that. But ultimately, what’s the takeaway, the outcome —

Well, a lot of people have read it. Almost 10,000 people have read this book. So what they have told me in their tweets and messages that they get from reading this book is they get the confidence to trust themselves. A lot of us have that inner gut that we don’t listen to. You should listen to it. Because only you know what’s best for you.

No one is going to put you at the top of your priority list. Your family supports you and loves you and cares about you. But no one’s waking up every day thinking, OK, Jamie, you’re the top of my list. I’m going to run your career and bring you all these opportunities and build your relationships for you. No one’s going to do it for you.

And so I think a lot of people who have read the book read it. And first of all, it’s a quick read. You’ll get through it. Or if you want to listen to an audiobook, and I narrated it myself. But I think people get a lot of confidence of like, oh, this is practical. This is stuff I can actually do. And a small thing will make a big difference.

I keep hearing with the small things, too. We’ve talked a lot on this podcast about habit stacking. And that’s what this sounds like, too. It’s like one day at a time, one skill at a time, one lesson at a time.
The small things are the big things. Actually, there’s a whole section in the book about that. That the small things end up being the big things.

You know my saying on that one — too big to do the little things, and too little to do big things. You already know that one.

I love that one. I love that. Actually, I told a story in the book that nothing is beneath you. When I moved to Egypt, I was 27. And I couldn’t find a job. I had worked at General Mills, and I had like this cool job working in sports marketing, a cool job. And I get to Egypt, and I can’t find a job. And I try to apply to Pepsi and Coca-Cola and P&G. I want to work in an American company because I know that environment. I can thrive in it.

And I got to Egypt. And I got offered to work as a secretary for a billionaire. And I went home that day just upset. I’m like, I’m overqualified. I don’t want to be an admin. Like, that’s not what I came here to do. Is that really what I’m going to be doing here is be — I’m overqualified. I was really full of myself.

And my dad gave me some advice at the time that I didn’t really see his foresight or insight. That he’s like, you should take this job. And I’m like, what? He’s like, you just moved here. You don’t know anybody. If I were you, I’d go in, put your head down. Put in the hard work. Make this job what it can be. Create value for him. Learn the business.

This is a perfect environment for you to learn about how to do business in a new country you’ve never done business before. Learn how to network and socialize with everyone. The office manager in the Middle East is like the chief of staff. So anyone who needs to get to the billionaire or the chairman of the company will have to go through you. If I were you, this is like a perfect opportunity for you to get access and meet everyone in the country.

I was so upset. The next day, I went in and I accepted the job. And I sat outside the chairman’s office, answering phones, scheduling meetings. But I was like, I was really not happy about it. But I’m like, I’m going to go to work every day with pride, and I’m going to master this role. And I’m going to show him that I’m capable of doing more. But first, I’m going to do what he wants. And I did.

I read every piece of paper going in the office, coming out. I networked with everyone. I wanted to be a pleasure to work with. I wanted everyone to meet me. I wanted to build relationships, build contacts, and that’s a story — it’s one of the stories in the book that I share because I’m like, no job is beneath you. Be willing to put in the hard work. Learn the value of building relationships. Learn the value of creating value for others. And I can tell you, for four years I worked for this chairman. I started as his secretary, and I ended up his business partner.

Wow.

Pretty amazing.

It is.

I put in the effort. I put in the hard work. I created value. And then I nagged him. I’m like, I can do more. I can do more. I can do more.

Advocate for yourself.

The greasy wheel got the grease. And then he finally is like, fine, I’ll give you a project so you can get out of my hair. And then I nailed it. I delivered. And then he’s like, OK, I think she can do more.

I love that. So we hit on a lot. We hit on a lot. So we want to make sure that we didn’t miss anything.

Before I give you our mic drop moment.

I’m ready.

Are you ready for the mic drop moment?

Yeah, I’m ready.

Let’s do it.

So you just said something about your father. I want to go back to childhood with both your parents. And I heard you speak about both your parents throughout the podcast. What was something that you remember early on around communication from your parents that you still champion today?

I think a lot of it was my dad told me — and my mom did as well — but what you put between your two ears, no one can take away from you — your knowledge. And you’ve got to learn how to build your own strength and powers. And a lot of people can take a lot away from you. And you’re not going to be handed anything. But if you focus on being smart and investing in yourself, that carried with me my whole life.
And my dad was a professor and dean of business school. My grandfather was in education. My aunts and uncles came from education. And I feel like that was a big part of my DNA and growing up. I have an older sister. She works at General Mills. She’s been there for 35 years. She’s an executive vice president. And he really raised strong girls to think about if you’re smart, no one can take anything away from you. And hard work obviously can’t replace that.

But I feel like my childhood in Minnesota was all about community and being with each other people and building relationships. And I feel like that was a big part of ingrained in me in my childhood as well as learning the value of working with other people and needing other people. It’s not about being self-reliant, like not needing somebody. It’s in fact, your power comes from who you hang out with and who you spend time with and who you invest relationships with.

That’s awesome. That’s awesome.

Well, Maha, we’re so grateful to have you join us today.

Thank you.

We want people to be sure to check out your book, Seven Rules of Self-Reliance. It’s available, I think, on all the major booksellers.

Yes, at Barnes and Noble, Amazon. It’s available everywhere. If anyone listens to the book or buys the book, share feedback with me because that’s how I learn what you care about the most.

And they can share that with you. You have your website, mahaabouelenein.com. Plus you’re on LinkedIn, Facebook, TikTok. Instagram.

And Instagram. We could just search your name there, and we’ll find you. And we’ll be sure to link to it from our show notes.

Thank you, Jamie. Thank you, David.

Thanks so much.