Running the Long Race

< Full Episode

Transcript: Running the Long Race

Season 11, Episode 3  | August 5, 2025

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Welcome back to another episode of Life Time Talks. I’m David Freeman.

And I’m Jamie Martin.

And today’s topic is The Longest Race. So we’re going to have today’s guest is going to be Kara Goucher. She contains a multitude of impactful identities — two-time Olympian, champion marathoner. She’s a world championship silver medalist, best-selling author of The Longest Race, podcaster, wife, mother and sports broadcaster.

But perhaps, her most consistent role is a tireless advocate for athletes women and humans in vulnerable situations. Kara has courageously mined her own experiences to improve the sports experience for others, and in doing so, has set the blueprint for how to be effective activist. Welcome.

Well, thank you. You can introduce me all the time. That’s great.

[LAUGHTER]

I know. We’re so happy to have you here, Kara. And I actually think we have to share a little fun fact. So you were a 2008 Olympian. David’s wife, Mechelle Lewis Freeman, is also an Olympian. So fun. You guys were on the same USA team.

Yeah. I was just talking to her on my little walk prior to jumping on with you. And she was just like, oh, yeah, tell her I said hey.

Yeah. I’m pretty sure we follow each other on Twitter or something. So yeah, that’s pretty awesome.

Yeah, yeah. Good times. So she did ’08 in Beijing. And then she coached the past two in Tokyo in 2020, and then recently, Paris, as far as relay coach.

That’s awesome.

Mm-hmm.

Small world.

Staying well connected to that sport.

Oh, yeah. For sure.

Well, I’m really excited to have you here today, Kara. As I was showing you beforehand, you are our cover subject for the July/August issue of Experience Life, where you shared your story and talk to us about just the various phases of your career, what you’ve been through, all of those different pieces. So we want to just spend some time getting to know you. And how did you end up getting into running in the first place? And how has it led you down this path to where you are?

Yeah. I mean, I got into running because my grandpa was a lifelong runner. And so he was the one that first got me into running. He would take me to little races, or we would run to the little convenience store by his house. And he’d buy me a soda. And then we’d walk back.

So he was really the first one that introduced it to me, but I did all sorts of sports growing up. And I think, when I got into middle school and high school, I really fell in love with running. I realized it was something that I was good at. And yeah, I just bit the bug early on and then just continued to chase it.

Awesome.

Yeah. I want to know, I mean, I just remember my wife sharing her Olympic journey. What was the point that you were like, all right, I’m about to go for the Olympics? What was that journey like?
Well, it’s funny. In 1992, when I watched the Summer Olympics, I watched the Women’s 10,000. I didn’t even really understand that that was an event. But I had started to worship this athlete named Lynn Jennings. And she was running it. And she ended up winning the bronze medal.

And that’s when I made a promise to myself, I’m going to make an Olympic team someday. I had just finished my freshman year. And I was like, I still had a ways to go. I had just won my first state championship. But that’s when I told myself, like, no, I’m going to do that. I’m going to go to the Olympics.

So yeah, it started pretty young.

And then I didn’t make an Olympic team until 2008. So there was a lot of time in between there, where I was still having this dream, but pursuing it with not always getting feedback that it’s going to happen. But I think, yeah, you just dream for a long time, then you just stay the course.

Yeah. That consistency through all of that. We mentioned in your bio, you’ve had so many amazing accomplishments, as we’ve talked about. Yet, despite so many successes in your running career, you have talked about not having a ton of self-confidence through different phases of that. And that goes back to college, and you also said working with the Oregon project with Nike. How did that vulnerability affect how you showed up during those times?

Yeah. I think just feeling like, now we would call it imposter syndrome, but that wasn’t something I knew when I was younger. But that’s really how I felt throughout so much of my career. I’m just this girl from Northern Minnesota. My dad died when I was little. I don’t come from this lineage of amazing athletes. I grew up eating Spam and stuff. So I would just always feel like, how did I get here? I’m almost tricking everyone that I’m this really good athlete.

And I finally just decided to do something about it. But it wasn’t like I worked on my self-esteem or my mental struggles, and it just went away. Honestly, it was something I had to continually work on my entire career.

And it just became a part of my training, it was working with therapists and really working on that. Because otherwise, I would show up to the start of a race and look around. And the result would already be determined, because I would already talk myself out of being able to compete with these women. So it was a weakness, but once I stopped being ashamed of it, it was just something I worked on, and it no longer held me back so much.

Were there certain things that you would say to yourself to get yourself psyched up, so you could show up both physically and mentally in those moments?

Yeah. A lot of it was working on it in practice. I would have power words, and I would have phrases that I would tell myself, so that when I got to race day, if I started to feel those emotions or those nerves, I could say, hey, I would say that word. It would calm me. It would remind me of the work I’ve done.
One of the biggest takeaways for me was to remind myself that I had done the work, to ask myself what I was about to ask myself to do. And so I kept a confidence journal. And I would write in it every night. I log my workouts. And then I would write in the confidence journal, every day, something that I was doing that was getting me closer to my dream.

And then I could flip through that the night before a big competition. And it’s one thing to hear it from your mom, or from your coach, or your spouse, like, you’re ready to do this. It’s another thing. You’re your harshest critic, so to see my own words telling me that I was ready to do that, that made the biggest impact on me and worked the best for me.

That’s powerful. I mean, can you let us in? What was one of the words?

Well, I mean, some of my words were “Fighter.” When I made my first Olympic team with your wife in ’08, that was my word. I was like, I’m going to fight till the very end, until there’s nothing left. And so when the race started to get hard at the Olympic trials, I just kept saying, “Fighter, fighter.”

And I had told myself that in training, so that when I told it to myself on race day, it actually meant something. I wasn’t just pulling something out of thin air. I had told myself during hard workouts like, you’re going to fight and finish this workout. And so it really meant something. And it conjured up emotion more than anything in the moments of like, I can do this, I’m ready to do this.

Wow. Power of words. The power of words. So —

Absolutely.

—I mean, in going into that, so how and when did you decide that you needed to stand up? And I want you to be able to share your experiences as far as from emotional and sexual abuse that occurred during your time in the Oregon project. What was the tipping point that led to that decision?
To go public with all of that?

Yeah.

Yeah, I think it was a slow burn. First I left the team, I was working with USADA, which is the United States Anti-Doping Agency. So first, I just was talking about that. And they were preparing a case against my former coach.

And it was during that time that I confided in them that I had been sexually assaulted. And they were the ones that then, by law, had reported to SafeSport. And honestly, at first, I did not want to share that. I felt really ashamed about all of that. I thought, fighting against doping in sport is pretty much universally accepted. People are going to be like, yeah, that’s the right thing to do. But talking about something that happened that’s really personal, that just feels different.

But honestly, as time went on, I just started to think like, honestly, I thought a lot about my nieces. They’re very much so like me. They’re raised in the same family background, where you do what’s right. You just put up with hard work. You don’t feel sorry for yourself.

And I just started to think they could find themselves in a situation that I found myself in. It’s very easy to find yourself in these situations, and they could find themselves there. And I could actually help stop that for someone like them moving forward. And I just started to feel like I could be part of the solution instead part of the problem. So it really was over a few years, but then I finally decided, no, it’s time. It’s time to tell this and to protect the next me down the line.

That was, I mean, the Segway of coming into that question, you went to your go-to word as far as “Fighter.” And then being vulnerable in a sense of, all right, should I be quiet? Or should I say something? And being that you said something, obviously, you now create that solution. You created the solution. And you envision your nieces and so on and so forth to now come up with how to make this better.

So just being a fighter. And that word came full circle in that situation. So I appreciate you sharing that.
Yeah, thanks. I think it’s scary to do that kind of stuff. And I’m not a natural born leader or anything like that. But I think there is something about being who you are through and through, and sticking to who you are, and really feeling who you are. And so I think, yeah, those moments when I thought about my nieces, I thought, no, the person I am is going to do something about this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, one of the things that you had shared when you were talking with our writer for your cover story was that you initially weren’t planning to write a book necessarily, but all these stories were out there in the world, and you had no control over the narrative. And so when you ultimately decided to write your book, it came out, I believe it was in 2023, what was the experience of writing the book like? How did documenting your experience help you process and reflect on what you had been through?

Yeah, I was really frustrated. I felt like my story and my experience were being rewritten by people who didn’t live it. Every three to five months, there’d be an article about The Organ Project. And no one would interview me for it, there would be no quotes for me, but I would be talked about. And I just started to feel, I mean, like it was affecting my life. It was like, I want to tell my side of the story.

So the process of writing the book started in 2019. So it was almost four years. And it was not what I was expecting. Going back in time, things that I thought hadn’t really affected me that much, including the sexual assault and stuff, I thought, oh, it doesn’t really bother me, reliving all that, and going back, and going through old emails, and journals, and things like that, it brought up a lot that I really needed help with.

And so it actually put me in therapy. And I’m really grateful for that, because there were just a lot of things that I think were holding me back as a person, as a mom, as a wife that I thought I had a handle on.
My dad died when I was little. I grew up in a house that was a little chaotic. And I became this excellent compartmentalizer, like, that doesn’t serve me well, so I actually am not going to feel that. And then I parlay that into athletics, which was helpful. I was a marathoner. This is hurting, but I’m not going to acknowledge that, so I’m going to put that in this box over here.

But I think, as a human, as I got into my 30s and into my 40s, and especially as I started to write this book, I started to realize, this doesn’t really serve me long term as a human. Putting all these things aside, I’m not really living, I’m not really feeling, because I just don’t allow myself to. So that was the most surprising thing about writing the book is that it’s like Pandora’s box, and then I couldn’t shut the lid. And then I really had to deal with a lot of things that I had gone through. But in the end, it was totally worth it.
Yeah. So if I’m hearing you right, somewhat therapeutic, granted that you had to unpack a lot of those things, in putting together each chapter, each page. Was it anything that you want our listeners to say, hey, this part right here was a game-changing part for me in my life. I know they need to go get the book, but is there anything that you want to share with the listeners that was near and dear to you as far as within the book?

Yeah. I think it’s just those moments, where I decided like, I had to leave Nike, or I had to leave the situation I was in. Those were big life moments for me. And then I think, later in the book, just talking about — I actually hate that expression, but unpacking all of the things that I had been through.
And again, I think, in our lives, we get on this cycle. We say, that doesn’t bother me. But really, those things are heavy. And they’re heavy crosses to bear. And they really get heavier over time. And there’s a lot of freedom in releasing that stuff and also not carrying other people’s shame.

And so I think yeah, those moments in the book, where I just like, I’m done carrying other people’s shame. I know I didn’t do anything wrong. I know I give myself a lot of grace that I did the best I could to survive those moments. And that was just super healing and empowering.

Wow. Awesome.

Yeah. And I think this is something so important for people to hear, like you said, going to therapy. I know you also shared in the article that you and your husband go to therapy together. And your husband was also an athlete on The Oregon Project, like, my husband and I do therapy. And I think it’s been one of the most important things for maintaining a relationship. Not that anything was really wrong, but just like, how do we take care of each other with the day to day things that happen, the big things too? And how do we keep going? So I’m just wondering if you’re open to talking about it, just how that aspect of therapy has helped with your relationships.

It’s brought us so close together. I remember when I told my mom, oh, Adam and I are going to therapy. And she was like, oh no, is there something wrong?

Right.

No. But it’s been so helpful, because I think there’s things in life that you just carry or that you don’t want to say to your partner because you don’t want to upset them, or that you don’t want them to read it the wrong way. And then also, there’s ways that I take things and that he takes things that with a third neutral party helping us walk through it, I just see a totally different side. Maybe there’s something that sets my husband off. And I’m like, I don’t know why it always sets him off. It’s so annoying to me.
But then with this third party, we talk it through, I’m like, wow, I see how that brings back all these emotions or it brings back these memories for you. And now, I see why that’s hard for you, and then vice versa.

So it’s been super helpful to have that third party. And I think people think you go in, angry. And we would never have had a session where we’re mad at each other. And usually, we end up crying and just seeing each other through a different lens. So it’s been super helpful for us. I can’t recommend it enough.
Yeah. No, I’m glad, normalizing that. And I think, you even said, walking you through who you were at 20 is different from who you were at 30 and 40. So you evolve, and your partner evolves. So the things that made you tick at 20, it might not make you tick at 30. So having those conversations and always keeping that fresh, I think, is key. So thank you for normalizing that and putting it out there. All right.

So you’ve been retired from competitive running now for a few years. And you embrace other roles, right, that keeps you connected to the sport. So what has the postcompetition phase looked like for you? And what are you most excited about within it?

Yeah. I mean, the post phase, at first, it was really hard, because you spend your whole life being an athlete and thinking about the next Olympic cycle or whatever it is, and you’re really ingrained in that. And then all of a sudden, you’re like, what am I doing now? So I will say that there was a few years where I really didn’t have my footing, like, what is my purpose if I can’t make Olympic teams, if I can’t stand on podium? What do I have to offer?

But finally, I transitioned into really leaning into that. I still love the sport. So what can I do? How can I be involved in the sport still? And first, I started a podcast about clean sport. And then one thing led to another. And eventually, I got the job at NBC to be on their broadcasting team.

And so I really love being able to tell the athletes stories. It makes me feel close to the sport still to see the athletes coming up. There’s very few, I mean, like two people remaining that I actually competed against. But it’s still really fun to see the next generation come up and come through.

And then just because I love it so much, what can I do to make their experience better? Is there anything I can fight for? Which really my focus has been in the past on maternity protection for women. But what can I do to make it better for the next generation? Because I love the sport so much, I want it to just keep getting better. I don’t want it to be worse than when I was there. You know what I mean. So it’s like, that’s where I really learned. That’s where my interests were. But it took me a while to figure that out.

When we’re talking about the advocacy work, I know you are still connected with USADA, like you said, in SafeSport, what is that work looking like right now? And how are you working with them?

I don’t really work with SafeSport anymore. I do serve on the board at USADA. I’m the vice chair. So that looks like, a couple times a year, we have board meetings. And then it’s just being integrated. Like for instance, last year I went on the hill, in front of people of Congress, and basically asked for money for funding for drug testing.

Thinking about LA Olympics are coming up sooner than we think, the influx of athletes that will be here, what do we do to make sure it is a clean games and as clean as we can make it? So it’s serving on the board, and sitting in meetings, helping try to get funding for USADA, and that’s basically it.

I mean, my role before I became vice chair was to communicate from athletes. And I still take that very seriously. I mean, we just had a board meeting. And I said, this is what I’m hearing from the athletes. They’re concerned about this. So it’s really like helping the voices athletes be heard.

Because I think when you’re an athlete, some athletes have power. Super successful ones, people listen. But there’s so many other athletes that their voices aren’t heard. So it’s important that if I can help in any way, elevate their voice, I do that.

One other thing I just want to mention, I know it’s more recent with, I think, Des Linden that you’ve been doing is the advocating for the 10,000 meter race. So tell us a little bit about that. Is there talk of that race going away or not being part of a certain level of competition?

Yeah. It’s been talked about for the last couple of Olympic cycles, that maybe it would be eliminated, because I think it’s not run very often anymore. And it’s not understood very well. And so I got to call it at the Olympics, obviously.

And JJ Watt tweeted afterwards, he has no idea who I am, but he’s like, wow, I just watched an entire 10,000. There was so much drama in it. It was so interesting. So that really sparked in me, what could we do to get more opportunities for the $10,000? If we continue to get people who run it and love it, and then we can storytell that, then we can keep it alive.

And so really, I convinced Des, who didn’t necessarily love running the 10,000, but I convinced her, we could do this. And it was so fun. It was super rewarding, because we had long careers, and we’re still involved in the sport, but it was something that we did that was entirely giving back.
So we hosted this 10,000. We gave out $44,000 in prize money to athletes that had never received prize money before, and just gave them an opportunity to run in a stadium with pace lights and get points to qualify for world championships or to get a time to qualify for the USA championship. So stuff like that’s really important to me is just giving athletes opportunity.

Awesome.

Yeah. The question I want to throw at you is transition. I think you go back to the inception as far as when you first watched your first race, right. I think you said ’90. Was it 92?

’92, yeah.

’92, right? And you think of how much that ingrained in the work ethic of all the things you did to lead to become an Olympian. And then to your point, now, when you start to transition into no longer doing Olympic things, it’s so hard for a lot of athletes. So you can do this in any sport, in any discipline. So for those that are listening, that are currently athletes or struggling as far as through the transition from athlete into the real world, what advice would you give them to set them up for success?
I would just say, to take your time and to really think about what feels good when you think about it. I finished fourth at our Olympic trials in 2016. I had always thought I’ll go to the 2016 Olympics, and then I’ll retire. And I didn’t get to go, because I finished fourth, and only the top three go. And then I really struggled for a few years of what my value is.

But I think one thing I could have never imagined is that this side of the sport is just as enjoyable, if not, sometimes, even more as it was when I was an athlete. And I think that’s hard for athletes to imagine. That would have been impossible for me to imagine if someone had said, you’re going to have this second career where you’re not running. And you’re going to like it just as much as you did as an athlete. I would have been like, no way, there’s nothing better than this.

So I think, just to stay the course. Life is long. And I don’t care how good you are, you’re only going to be able to compete for so long. And so don’t fear that second chapter. You get to have a whole second chapter, where you get to really discover, well, what else do I like? Who else do I want to be? Don’t fear it. Take your time to develop it, but don’t fear it, because it’s probably going to end up pretty amazing.
Yeah. And I mean, just to carry off that, it’s just almost the discipline of what you do to become a great athlete translates to now, what you can do in that second chapter. And I think if they know how to reposition that, that would be eye opening for them as well.

Yeah. And you witnessed that firsthand too with Michelle and what she’s up to these days too.
Yeah, that was difficult to obviously see, because it’s firsthand, I’m seeing it all. I mean, but for her to now transition to still being close to the sport, giving back to the sport as far as just girls in the sport, like track girls and all that, and being a coach, being close to that, but now to be like, what is my next thing? No longer coaching. But she got it all figured out.

It took her a little something, something there, but at the same time, just the patience. And you have an identity. You have a voice. You have power within your position. And always make sure that you champion that.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

OK. So you just said that when you were an athlete, but we have the idea of, once an athlete, always an athlete. Always an athlete, doing your thing. So what does your health and wellness look like for you now, as your routine has shifted from training in a professional capacity to current day?
It’s funny, because I still sort of structure my day around running.

[LAUGHTER]

I dropped my son off at school. And then I train. And I try to not have any work calls before 11:00, so that I can go train and lift weights. And I mean, I’m not training for anything other than just life and my enjoyment of it. I still love the ritual of going for the run, centering myself before I start the day.
So I feel lucky that I still love it. It looks very different. I used to run 135 miles a week. And now, I run 30, but it still fills my cup. And yeah, it’s funny. People are always like, do you run anymore? And I’m like, I still center my entire day around it, even though it’s just a four-mile run or whatever it might be. But yeah, I still really love it, still just gives me a lot of peace, and centers me, and sets me up to have a successful day.

And then what we see on social media, you’re breaking the internet, running some 5Ks with your son. I’m assuming, it’s sub 20-minute 5K. So yeah, sharing that joy and that piece of, what was so instrumental for you, so much of your life to be able to do that with your son, how does that feel?

It’s awesome. I mean, I love sharing running with my son. And I can’t beat him anymore. He’s too fast. But I just signed up for another 5K. And you have to let go of ego or what it used to be. So I used to run 5Ks in under 15 minutes. And now, I set a goal to run under 1,850 next month at a 5K.

I spent a lot of time thinking, I don’t want to show up in races, and I don’t want to do that, because I don’t want people to be like, wow, she really slowed down. But then it was like, I enjoy still doing that. I enjoy lining up. I enjoy being around the community. And I just had to let that pride go a little bit.

And what’s crazy is, a year ago, I trained to try to beat my son’s PR. And I trained so hard. And I did it. And that felt like an Olympic gold medal, I’m dead serious. I was like walking on air for three days. And so it couldn’t be any more different than how I actually trained when I was an Olympian or competing for the Olympics, but you still can find your own joy on it. And you just have to meet yourself where you’re at.

Yeah.

She just glazed over the 18 minutes in a 5K —

Obviously.

—like that’s something simple, like, thanks for making us feel normal over here.

[LAUGHTER]

We were talking yesterday about David sprinting against Michelle one time. And that was not a good choice for him. So we know what the right places are for us.

Right.

[LAUGHTER]

That’s amazing.

Oh, my gosh I know. Oh, my gosh, I had a question that just totally went out. I had something. It was not on the list of questions.

Yeah, just off the top.

I did. It’s going to come back to me. You go.

OK. All right. So when you think about your legacy, what does that look like?

I mean, I don’t know. Legacy is funny, right? Because everyone’s going to get forgotten at some point. I think what matters to me most is my family and then just really knowing that I did right by the next group of people that come through the running world.

I care so much about the sport. It gave me so much opportunity. I grew up, and I love where I’m from. I’m super proud of it. It’s tattooed on my body. But I grew up in this small town. I never thought about moving away, or traveling the world, or doing all these things. And running just opened my eyes to just how amazing and how big the world is, and things that I could achieve that I never could have imagined.
And so I just want to make sure that that opportunity remains and the purity of it for hundreds and hundreds of years for everyone that comes after me. So I just want to be a good family member and good to the sport.

Oh, that sounds good. I like it.

OK, I remembered my question.

What was it?

It was really more about, as you’re lining up with other people at these races now, not as a professional athlete, but what does that energy feel like to you? I mean, I know I did my very first marathon last year. And the energy of just being surrounded by those people of all different ages, races, shapes, sizes, fitness levels, it was just like this. And I get goosebumps when I think about it. And that was the one time I did it. But now that you’re doing it in this capacity and getting to watch your son do it too, what is that like for you?

Oh, it’s so awesome. I didn’t line up in a race for so many years. And I was like, I’m never going to do that again. And I started doing it a couple years ago. And it’s just brought so much joy to my life. I love lining up. I love the excitement with everyone. I’m totally psycho. As soon as we start, I’m not friendly anymore. It’s like the old me again. Oh, I have to get as much out of my body as I can. But it’s just so fun.
And then watching my son, it’s amazing, but also super, super nerve-wracking. He set this goal, in sixth grade, to be district champion in eighth grade. And so he was in eighth grade. Last week was the district meet.

And I mean, I was shaking, because I knew how much he wanted it. And I just wanted him to be proud of himself, no matter what. And whenever he sets a big goal, I always end up texting my mom. And I’m like, I don’t know how you did this for decades. I raced for decades.

So it’s super fun, but it is really nerve-wracking to have a loved one that’s putting their heart on the line. And my husband and I raced at the same time, but I think I would get really nervous for him, but I would be warming up for my own race. It’s just different when it’s your child. And you’re just like, oh, God. Yeah. Yeah.

Be there one way or the other, however things go at the end. And whether you’re on the winning side, the losing side, that’s how I feel on the lacrosse field and watching tennis matches these days. I know you have that by the football field, racing.

While on track now.

Yeah, on track too.

I’m practicing right now too. Yeah. So we got some sprinters. So yeah, it’s real quick. Get them done. Get
them done.

Oh, yeah. Anyway. Well, Kara, did we miss anything? Anything else you want to make sure we share with our listeners and viewers before we drop you into David’s last moment?

No, I don’t think so. We covered a lot.

Awesome. All right. Here we go.

If there could be a distance relay, what distance should you think each leg should run?

Oh, my gosh, that’s so crazy you asked me this, because I was thinking about this yesterday on a run, about how there’s no distance relays at the Olympics or the world champs. But I think that to make it the most inclusive, it’s going to be really long.

[LAUGHTER]

It’s going to have to be like a distance medley. And we’re going to have to have 800, 1,500, 3K, 5K, probably. And I mean, even though the 10,000 was my baby, I’m not going to put it on there, because that’s just too much.

I mean, obviously, the 4 by 1,500 meter would be amazing, because 1,500 is such a fun race to watch. But I think to make it most inclusive, yeah, you got to go from the 8 through the 5,000. And I will watch it. Probably, no one else will, but I’ll watch it.

I want you to put together your dream team now.

OK.

Four legs.

Spot?

Yeah, mixed relay. So male, female.

OK. Oh, male, female. Oh, jeez. OK. Are we talking about US athletes here?

Dream team, you could be anywhere. Yeah.

Oh, jeez. OK. So for the 800, I’m going to go with Athing Mu. I think she’s going to come back. I know she’s had a rough patch, but I just believe in her talent, so I’m going to go with her for the 800.

For the 1,500, I’m going to go male, because the female is too obvious, you pick Faith Kipyegon. So for the 1,500, I’m going to pick Jakob Ingebrigtsen. He’s just a gamer. He always shows up.

For the 3,000, now, I’m going to go back to women. And I’m going to pick Faith. Faith could be gone for that, because she once held the world record in the 1,500 and the 5,000.

And for the 5,000, I’m going to go with Grant Fisher from the US. I think he’s ready to take a step up and become a world champion this year. So I’m going to go with him for the 5,000 meter leg.

Nice. You got to campaign for that, the distance medley. Let’s see if we can get it going. And then it’s a mixed relay too, so you get a little best of both worlds there.

Yeah, I like that.

Oh, that’s awesome. Well, Kara, thank you so much for answering our questions, for playing along with that last minute creating that team and that dream, hopefully, down the road someday. If our listeners want to follow you, they can find you on Instagram, Threads, and X, at Kara Goucher. And they can check out your book, The Longest Race, which, again, was out in 2023 and is still out there. And go, grab it, a great read.

I appreciate you.

Thank you.

Thanks so much, Kara.

Thank you.

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